BaL 18.05.24 - Debussy: Jeux

[Roger Webb]

I’m predisposed to like pretty much anything from Les Siècles/F-X R but, along with Haitink, this has been my “go-to” performance of a favourite work since it was released. The Boulez/NPO LP was my introduction to ‘Jeux’ a very long time ago and was imprinted in my musical consciousness thereafter but, rather indifferent recording quality aside (alas, also a characteristic of the fine performance by Hans Zender), I would be hard-pressed to choose between Roth and Sir Bernard.

My introduction to Jeux was buying the three Lp box of Haitink and this was my mainstay of Debussy for years. Latterly I tried out many other perfs and brought home the four discs of the complete Debussy by Jean Martinon on EMI. The orchestra (Orch. Nat. de l'ORTF) doesn't quite match Haitink's Concertgebouw, but they are idiomatic and the sound Paul Vavasseur gets in the Salle Wagram is fine. The Haitink Lp set will always be special, but have a listen to Martinon....and not just in Jeux, La Mer is terrific!

[HighlandDougie]

My introduction to Jeux was buying the three Lp box of Haitink and this was my mainstay of Debussy for years. Latterly I tried out many other perfs and brought home the four discs of the complete Debussy by Jean Martinon on EMI. The orchestra (Orch. Nat. de l'ORTF) doesn't quite match Haitink's Concertgebouw, but they are idiomatic and the sound Paul Vavasseur gets in the Salle Wagram is fine. The Haitink Lp set will always be special, but have a listen to Martinon....and not just in Jeux, La Mer is terrific!

Indeed, I am predisposed to like pretty much anything conducted by Jean Martinon (most recently the live ORTF Mahler 3) so upgraded the Debussy recordings with a Japanese SACD set of the four CDs a few years ago.

[Roger Webb]

Indeed, I am predisposed to like pretty much anything conducted by Jean Martinon (most recently the live ORTF Mahler 3) so upgraded the Debussy recordings with a Japanese SACD set of the four CDs a few years ago.

There is I think, particularly with French orchestras a national typicality, and it's a bit obvious to say it 'suits' the music, but I think it does. I have some out-of-the-way stuff in French music on labels like Timpani. Now, they use regional orchestras little known outside France, but they somehow sound 'right' for the music...but judged against grander ensembles they would seem poor - except the 'grander' ensembles wouldn't bother themselves with such obscure repertoire!

I heard the Orchestre de Bretagne once in Nantes playing a programme of Ravel, Ibert and Paul le Flem, and it was fascinating - pull it apart and you could say the ensemble and intonation were not perfect, but the overall effect was quite moving....rather like the difference between an original soundtrack of a fifties b/w Truffaut and a polished modern version. One sounds idiomatic, the other not.

[oliver sudden]

There’s a Cluytens recording of the Ravel orchestration of Pictures… the performance is really not great and the sound is quite dodgy but hearing how magnificently the winds blend in some of the smaller Promenades has completely spoilt me for other recordings. In particular, the Promenade before The Old Castle, where the overtones of the bassoon, clarinets and oboes line up in a way that not even modern French instruments can replicate.

I was horribly disappointed listening to one of Martinon’s Ravel recordings with the OdP. I’d forgotten that those were made after Barenboim had made the bassons change to fagotts. When an eagerly awaited bassoon solo came along it was like biting into something I thought was foie gras and getting Leberwurst instead.

[Roger Webb]

There’s a Cluytens recording of the Ravel orchestration of Pictures… the performance is really not great and the sound is quite dodgy but hearing how magnificently the winds blend in some of the smaller Promenades has completely spoilt me for other recordings. In particular, the Promenade before The Old Castle, where the overtones of the bassoon, clarinets and oboes line up in a way that not even modern French instruments can replicate.

I was horribly disappointed listening to one of Martinon’s Ravel recordings with the OdP. I’d forgotten that those were made after Barenboim had made the bassons change to fagotts. When an eagerly awaited bassoon solo came along it was like biting into something I thought was foie gras and getting Leberwurst instead.

Yes I think OdP is now a more 'international' orchestra than the Orch. Nat. de l'ORTF (in 1974) was. I went to the Philharmonie in Paris a few years ago for an OdP concert with Daniel Harding in Bruckner 6, and was very impressed with the sound of the orchestra. A far cry from a cartoon I remember seeing (in the 90s) which showed two men standing outside the newly opened Bastille Opera, one saying to the other 'what's the difference between the Opera House and the Titanic?' the other answered 'the Titanic had an orchestra when it sank'.

[Nick Armstrong]

… evidence here of afternoon BALs losing an engaged listenership? Can’t remember a time when there were no comments during/immediately after a broadcast

Or perhaps it’s Jeux…

[edashtav]

Winner by a short, refined head: CBSO/ Rattle
from Pierre Boulez, and the new boy with his 2nd Parisian recording, Klaus Mäkelä.

[LMcD]

… evidence here of afternoon BALs losing an engaged listenership? Can’t remember a time when there were no comments during/immediately after a broadcast

Or perhaps it’s Jeux…

Nobody for tennis? On a beautiful Saturday afternoon, there was very little incentive to stay in and listen, especially if, like me, you already have one recording of Jeux and don't need another.

[Beresford]

This was the subject of one of our Summer BAL’s
It took quite a while for this work to click with me, and the much lauded Haitink version never helped. I finally ‘got it’ with the aid of Dutois with the Montreal SO, and Boulez with Cleveland. Roth with Les Siècles is the pick of the modern versions. An amazing piece, quicksilver doesn’t do it justice.

After listening to the BAL, and then Dutoit on Youtube, I agree with all this, except I find the Roth version a bit "in your face". Dutoit sounds to me very good on the overall shape, and more warm hearted than Boulez, but Boulez finds more to say within phrases. The BAL made me listen to other Boulez versions on YouTube. His 1966 version there is much more impassioned - makes the Cleveland version sound as though he was a bit bored, or at least unmoved, by such a "game".
Rattle, the reviewer's favourite, reminded me more of a puppy dog - attractive playing and dynamic changes, but he doesn't do ambiguity. A few bars from the end I thought " I bet I know how he will play the last lonely chord" and sure enough it was very predictable. Boulez in 1966 was not.

(ps I enjoyed a beautiful morning in Holker Hall Deer Park, which I discovered has a fascinating new installation/sculpture in slate stones. By 2pm my sunshine quota had been reached. Also I am still searching for my perfect performance of Jeux.)

[silvestrione]

Nobody for tennis? On a beautiful Saturday afternoon, there was very little incentive to stay in and listen, especially if, like me, you already have one recording of Jeux and don't need another.

Tennis? I played padel for an hour and a half, came back and put the BAL on and fell asleep (no reflection on the quality of the BAL, which I thought I was engaged by until...)

[Pulcinella]

I too was outdoors on a glorious day here in York, so didn't listen.

This is what the BBC website reports;

3.00pm
Building a Library
French composer Claude Debussy fashioned a taut and intense ballet around a game of tennis, a work which lasts less than twenty minutes. Flora Willson joins Andrew to propose her ultimate recommendation to buy, download or stream
Recommended version: CBSO, Simon Rattle (conductor) - Warner Classics 9029667941 or 2435752195 (both download only)

No mention of 'also recommended'.

[CallMePaul]

Flora Wilson has been 10 times a reviewer on BAL. Studying her form, I would suggest a flutter on this recording might pay out.

https://www.prestomusic.com/classica...midi-dun-faune

Sadly "out of stock at the UK distributor", as I much preferred the excerpts played to Rattle. This seems to be an increasingly common problem with Harmonia Mundi, and I wonder if this isa prelude to deletion of the hard copy Cds and the recordings moving to download only, which does not suit everyone (I've not checked on Amazon but if it is not available via Presto they are likely to charge an exhorbitant price).

[LMcD]

I too was outdoors on a glorious day here in York, so didn't listen.

This is what the BBC website reports;

3.00pm
Building a Library
French composer Claude Debussy fashioned a taut and intense ballet around a game of tennis, a work which lasts less than twenty minutes. Flora Willson joins Andrew to propose her ultimate recommendation to buy, download or stream
Recommended version: CBSO, Simon Rattle (conductor) - Warner Classics 9029667941 or 2435752195 (both download only)

No mention of 'also recommended'.

No other recordings were apparently recommendable. Sir Velo's choice is a snip on Amazon at £127.

[Pulcinella]

No other recordings were apparently recommendable. Sir Velo's choice is a snip on Amazon at £127.

This is the coupling I have of the winner:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Ravel-Daphnis-Chloe-Debussy-Jeux/dp/B00T4EHOHU/ref=sr_1_18?crid=N0G2FRHFON7L&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.OUvvnv8l-LYR8I-V4IstrLtsjJPzE7o5MjHC5HeMxJM.3iaCmYgOzZJVsXSvE2LlDasygi86ZeZB5NBumnP5iyc&dib_tag=se&keywords=Ravel+rattle&qid=1716067325&s=music&sprefix=ravel+rattle%2Cpopular%2C77&sr=1-18

It's also in this box set:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Debussy-Ravel-Simon-Rattle/dp/B0013D8JXS/ref=sr_1_2?crid=N0G2FRHFON7L&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.pCdtR8_pYBoGu5ThaqiG6oaB_5wOYom8pdPsvLvlYakpuRR1g0qkmWEBA5_l4mWNo7Jdna_93rc1diXFOtPHThX9D0CjW2LqBhVTKFHayMZcTfWCR4QNc8rUYgzhoPjTafeichRoVWpnorEsy3Ip7be8ugFat8wjUVj4QYc3JHX9qWHPV6zMo24wMhuYbUD2cFuPWRkgyrdaW7el13GHu_Cj6s1EgIi5-b4NZKAvREo.hM-lAN-amXJGIysyawflQfC-tz0pKK0ldKvaMGf4DrE&dib_tag=se&keywords=Ravel+rattle&qid=1716067430&s=music&sprefix=ravel+rattle%2Cpopular%2C77&sr=1-2

[soileduk]

Sadly "out of stock at the UK distributor", as I much preferred the excerpts played to Rattle. This seems to be an increasingly common problem with Harmonia Mundi, and I wonder if this isa prelude to deletion of the hard copy Cds and the recordings moving to download only, which does not suit everyone (I've not checked on Amazon but if it is not available via Presto they are likely to charge an exhorbitant price).

Sold out at Harmonia Mundi.