BaL 9.11.19 - Mahler: Symphony no. 3

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Absolutely … but what no Haitink?

Given his repeated statements to the effect that he preferred those recordings that gave a sense of mischief and even vulgarity where appropriate, it's not really surprising that Haitink doesn't feature amongst his choice of recordings.




Clarification: this refers to Tony Duggan's review originally posted by keraulophone in #91 , not to the BaL.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Was I dreaming that I posted or have my comments about Bernstein’s wonderful Mahler 3 (6j been removed?

You been at the Horlics again, cloughie? (No posts deleted from this Thread, other than those so treated by their original writers. When did you post this "missing" post?)

[cloughie]

You been at the Horlics again, cloughie? (No posts deleted from this Thread, other than those so treated by their original writers. When did you post this "missing" post?)

No Horlicks but It was around the time that the Times crossword was featuring. Never mind anyway back to Mahler 3 - I thought the bit that was played from the DG Bernstein finale was wonderful, and the Abbado he played after it was not in the same mould or class, but I have always liked the Abbado VPO with Jessye as an overall performance and preferablle to his later BPO recording.

[Pulcinella]

No Horlicks but It was around the time that the Times crossword was featuring. Never mind anyway back to Mahler 3 - I thought the bit that was played from the DG Bernstein finale was wonderful, and the Abbado he played after it was not in the same mould or class, but I have always liked the Abbado VPO with Jessye as an overall performance and preferablle to his later BPO recording.

I posted one that's gone astray too, mentioning The Times crossword.
Not really bothered, but I assumed that it had been removed/deleted because it was somewhat off topic (and following on from one that mentioned the dreaded B word! No, not Bernstein!).

[Nick Armstrong]

I collected all the Abbado Mahler in the ‘80s as they came out, including the 3rd (with the pink feather design on the cover). Great performance and I know what Mival means about it somehow speaking more than many. But I recall my disappointment was that the sound seemed very low level / recessed and lacking the wide dynamic range that this piece cries out for. I wonder if that has been rectified in recent streaming options - I will investigate.

Striking that there are only 3 contributions in the time the programme was on today. In times past there would have been loads more . I suspect that reflects much more on the twofer format than the forum membership.

I think it’s also because they seem to be directing the programme to newcomers this season, in tandem with the ‘twofer’ chat format, so that for many of the seasoned listeners/collectors here, there are usually no great revelations. For that reason, I only listen with one ear these days, if I listen at all - it remains interesting to hear versions of a piece that may have passed me by, but with the short short-lists, such moments are few and far between. (Hence I’m with Heldenleben in his #81 above)

Also I increasingly tune out the chat, not least because AMcG’s repetitive mantras (“What should we listen out for?”, “What are we going to hear next?” &c. &c.) grate more and more as the weeks go by. Not really a criticism of him: it’s inevitable with the thankless and pointless role the format calls upon him to play Also, the interjections are often fake: he knows darned well “what we’re going to hear next”, as revealed a couple of times when the reviewer has dried and he’s had to answer his own question This phoney element really bugs me.

I was intrigued by this and did a bit of checking. According to the Bank of England’s inflation calculator £3.30 in 1981 is equivalent to £12.40 in 2018. A seat in the last six rows of the balcony ( previously the terrace ?) for a Philharmonia concert is currently £12. That’s pretty amazing giving that West End theatre prices and ROH/ENO have gone up by way more than either CPI or RPI

Very interesting

[Lordgeous]

Many thanks for this, Lordgeous. Although I was well aware that this morning's BAL was much too short, at 45 minutes, to comment on more than a few recordings, I couldn't quite believe that the awesome Horenstein version wasn't even mentioned, let alone the first ever #3 recording by Adler. Thanks also for the pointer to Duggan.

We should thank Keraulophone for leading us to Duggan. Does anyone know anything about him? Not a name familiar to me.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

We should thank Keraulophone for leading us to Duggan. Does anyone know anything about him? Not a name familiar to me.

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2012/Feb12/Tony%20Duggan.htm

[Lordgeous]

http://www.musicweb-international.co...y%20Duggan.htm

Thanks so much - and his mother's a pretty impressive critic too!

[Petrushka]

I collected all the Abbado Mahler in the ‘80s as they came out, including the 3rd (with the pink feather design on the cover). Great performance and I know what Mival means about it somehow speaking more than many. But I recall my disappointment was that the sound seemed very low level / recessed and lacking the wide dynamic range that this piece cries out for. I wonder if that has been rectified in recent streaming options - I will investigate.
[/COLOR]

Ditto to all of this. I bought the LPs then the CD issue but the low level recording was, and remains, a serious drawback and I've not been tempted to try it again for many years. If I want to hear Abbado in this I'd go for the Lucerne performance on DVD (or the 2007 Prom if you have it). The Berlin PO version also had too many drawbacks of its own to warrant a return.

I've not had chance to listen to it yet but the Netherlands Radio 4 website currently carries a 1988 live Amsterdam Abbado performance with Jessye Norman and the Gustav Mahler Youth Orchestra still available for 50 days https://www.nporadio4.nl/concerten/5...-jessye-norman

[Nick Armstrong]

I've not had chance to listen to it yet but the Netherlands Radio 4 website currently carries a 1988 live Amsterdam Abbado performance with Jessye Norman and the Gustav Mahler Youth Orchestra still available for 50 days https://www.nporadio4.nl/concerten/5...-jessye-norman

Thanks for this! But the R3 summer intern must be on a placement in Holland, because in place of de overrompelende opening, it starts with Mvt. 2 followed by 3... ... with Mvt. 1 starting around 26:10 Proper overrompelended, I was!

Sounds a very good performance, but I think in this instance Mahler’s own thoughts on movement order were preferable

[Petrushka]

Thanks for this! But the R3 summer intern must be on a placement in Holland, because in place of de overrompelende opening, it starts with Mvt. 2 followed by 3... ... with Mvt. 1 starting around 26:10 Proper overrompelended, I was!

Sounds a very good performance, but I think in this instance Mahler’s own thoughts on movement order were preferable

Crikey! You're right! I did say I hadn't listened to it. I'd got this down to record but unless I can do some editing I don't think I'll now bother. This isn't the first time that Dutch Radio 4 has made a mess of one of these streams and I did send them an email about one once which never received acknowledgement or the offending error corrected.

[Nick Armstrong]

Crikey! You're right! I did say I hadn't listened to it. I'd got this down to record but unless I can do some editing I don't think I'll now bother. This isn't the first time that Dutch Radio 4 has made a mess of one of these streams and I did send them an email about one once which never received acknowledgement or the offending error corrected.

Blimey.

You’d think they’d really have to go out of their way to hack two central movements out and shove ‘em at the start! (I checked: Mvt 1 really does segue straight into Jessye). I wonder what on earth went on...

Ah well - thanks for the steer nonetheless, Pet

[Bryn]

Blimey.

You’d think they’d really have to go out of their way to hack two central movements out and shove ‘em at the start! (I checked: Mvt 1 really does segue straight into Jessye). I wonder what on earth went on...

Ah well - thanks for the steer nonetheless, Pet

And there was I at first thinking they were emulating the order of performance introduced by Mahler. The 2nd, 3rd and original version of the 6th movement were performed well in advance of the first complete performance of the eventually decided upon six movements. However, when the 1st movement of this recording went on from the 3rd to the 1st movement it became clear that someone must have pressed the randomise button.

[cloughie]

Thanks for this! But the R3 summer intern must be on a placement in Holland, because in place of de overrompelende opening, it starts with Mvt. 2 followed by 3... ... with Mvt. 1 starting around 26:10 Proper overrompelended, I was!

Sounds a very good performance, but I think in this instance Mahler’s own thoughts on movement order were preferable

I followed the link and thought something was missing - not so much bleeding chunks as the wrong bleeding order - Eric Morecambe style?
Perhaps Jessye’s demise prioritised the playing order!

[Bryn]

Re. the Dutch R4 Jessye Norman link, with Video Downloadhelper one can save the 256kbps mp3, then edit the movements into the correct order with mp2directcut. The standard version of Video Downloadhelper act as a Firefox extension but there seems also to be a version for Chrome, too. When saving mp3's you have no need to pay to register as the watermark that displays on video downloads presents no problem where only audio-only is concerned.

[Hmm. The problems with this recording go somewhat further than the misordering of movements. There is ham-fistedly faded to silence applause after the 1st movement and crude fades to silence between other movements.]