BaL 17.07.21 - Liszt: Piano Sonata in B minor

**Joseph K** · 02-07-21, 18:28

Originally posted by Eine Alpensinfonie View Post

9.30 Building a Library
Katy Hamilton chooses her favourite recording of Liszt’s Sonata in B minor.

When Clara Schumann described Liszt’s 1854 Piano Sonata in B minor as ‘truly terrible’ it reflected an influential school of 19th-century thought (Brahms fell asleep when he first heard it). But for Liszt himself it was his breakthrough piece which established him as a ‘proper’ composer, one for whom musically-driven formal organisation and inspired ingenuity were paramount, rather than a mere pianist whose music was generated by the need to demonstrate his transcendent technique.

Posterity has sided with Liszt, not Clara – and so have successive generations of performers, reflected in a recorded legacy that is a veritable Who’s Who of the great pianists of the last century and our own.

Did you write this, Alpie? Do the first two books of the Years of Pilgrimage not count as the work of a 'proper' composer? Or the sublime Harmonies poetiques et religieuses?

**Maclintick** · 02-07-21, 19:06

Originally posted by Joseph K View Post

Did you write this, Alpie? Do the first two books of the Years of Pilgrimage not count as the work of a 'proper' composer? Or the sublime Harmonies poetiques et religieuses?

Alpie bears no responsibility for the often contentious billings of forthcoming BALs on the Radio 3 Record Review website, which he reproduces without alteration, deviation or comment on the FoR BAL thread...

**Joseph K** · 02-07-21, 19:24

Originally posted by Maclintick View Post

Alpie bears no responsibility for the often contentious billings of forthcoming BALs on the Radio 3 Record Review website, which he reproduces without alteration, deviation or comment on the FoR BAL thread...

Ok - shame on Radio 3.

My favourites are Lazaridis and Pollini. I also like the DG Pletnev, which is the first recording I heard of this awesome work.

P.S I initially read the person doing this BAL as Kenneth Hamilton.

**silvestrione** · 02-07-21, 21:36

Originally posted by Joseph K View Post

P.S I initially read the person doing this BAL as Kenneth Hamilton.

Who did the last BAL on this work I think. Are they related? He went for Hough but clearly preferred the old school, Barrere, Horowitz, and (not so old school) Richter.

I like Arrau.

**Barbirollians** · 02-07-21, 22:32

Originally posted by Joseph K View Post

Did you write this, Alpie? Do the first two books of the Years of Pilgrimage not count as the work of a 'proper' composer? Or the sublime Harmonies poetiques et religieuses?

Of course he doesn’t,t write the nonsense Radio 3 put out with BAL

**Maclintick** · 02-07-21, 22:42

Originally posted by Barbirollians View Post

Of course he doesn’t,t write the nonsense Radio 3 put out with BAL

As explained with less vitriol in my post 3...

**Maclintick** · 02-07-21, 23:03

Originally posted by Joseph K View Post

Ok - shame on Radio 3.

My favourites are Lazaridis and Pollini. I also like the DG Pletnev, which is the first recording I heard of this awesome work.

P.S I initially read the person doing this BAL as Kenneth Hamilton.

I think we have "previous" on the possibly Marmitic appeal of this composer, JK. I first encountered FL's B minor masterpiece on Arrau's 1970s account for Philips, & have relished the work ever since in live performances, an especial favourite being Llŷr Williams's at the Wigmore Hall, where the emotional content was laid bare and nothing was sacrificed to clarity of structure.

**teamsaint** · 02-07-21, 23:07

Originally posted by Maclintick View Post

I think we have "previous" on the possibly Marmitic appeal of this composer, JK. I first encountered FL's B minor masterpiece on Arrau's 1970s account for Philips, & have relished the work ever since in live performances, an especial favourite being Llŷr Williams's at the Wigmore Hall, where the emotional content was laid bare and nothing was sacrificed to clarity of structure.

I've only ever heard this live played by a student in a free recital , which was very enjoyable, but really ought to make it in my way to hear somebody really good.

**gurnemanz** · 02-07-21, 23:20

Originally posted by teamsaint View Post

I've only ever heard this live played by a student in a free recital , which was very enjoyable, but really ought to make it in my way to hear somebody really good.

Clara Schumann wrote that she felt ill ("ich wurde ganz elend") when Brahms played the sonata to her. My reaction was for a long time not quite that strong but I didn't really connect with it. I am not a pianist and will probably never be able to fully comprehend it. The first time I really appreciated it was the first time I heard it live. A few years ago I got on a bus and went to a lunchtime recital in a nearby Arts Centre, The Pound in Corsham, Wilts. The venue was intimate and the audience small. Not free, cost £5. I was totally rivetted every step along the way as the young Romanian/British pianist, Florian Mitrea, took us on a journey through the work.

**Maclintick** · 02-07-21, 23:33

Originally posted by gurnemanz View Post

I was totally rivetted every step along the way as the young Romanian/British pianist, Florian Mitrea, took us on a journey through the work.

Exactly--It's a journey, rhapsodic but with sonata elements to bind it together.

**Darloboy** · 03-07-21, 00:26

Originally posted by silvestrione View Post

Who did the last BAL on this work I think. Are they related? He went for Hough but clearly preferred the old school, Barrere, Horowitz, and (not so old school) Richter.

Yes, it was Kenneth Hamilton who chose Hough in October 2011. Prior to that both Stephen Plaistow in Feb 93 and Harriet Smith in July 05 chose Zimerman. Plaistow made Brendel's 1981 recording his second choice and Richter's live 1966 recording his third choice with Cortot from 1928 as his historic choice. Smith made Argerich's 1971 recording her mid-price recommendation; Demidenko her budget-price recommendation; and Gilels' 1964 recording was also recommended.

By my reckoning, this is about the 10th time BaL has covered this work since the programme began. This is about the same amount of programmes as all of the rest of Liszt's works put together.

Personally I'd like to see a programme dedicated to a survey of his shorter piano works one of these days.

**Joseph K** · 03-07-21, 07:32

Originally posted by Darloboy View Post

By my reckoning, this is about the 10th time BaL has covered this work since the programme began. This is about the same amount of programmes as all of the rest of Liszt's works put together.

Personally I'd like to see a programme dedicated to a survey of his shorter piano works one of these days.

**rauschwerk** · 03-07-21, 07:54

Originally posted by Joseph K View Post

Did you write this, Alpie? Do the first two books of the Years of Pilgrimage not count as the work of a 'proper' composer? Or the sublime Harmonies poetiques et religieuses?

The clue surely lies in the inverted commas around 'proper'. Alfred Brendel opined that Liszt 'mastered the larger forms only in the B minor sonata, but there in a most imposing fashion'. In 19th century Germanic musical culture, one had to be seen to have mastered the larger forms to be fully accepted as a composer. Shorter pieces, however well-crafted or sublime, did not win you many points.

**Joseph K** · 03-07-21, 08:01

Originally posted by rauschwerk View Post

The clue surely lies in the inverted commas around 'proper'. Alfred Brendel opined that Liszt 'mastered the larger forms only in the B minor sonata, but there in a most imposing fashion'. In 19th century Germanic musical culture, one had to be seen to have mastered the larger forms to be fully accepted as a composer. Shorter pieces, however well-crafted or sublime, did not win you many points.

Yes, but it still implies that everything before that in Liszt was written just to demonstrate his technique.

BaL 17.07.21 - Liszt: Piano Sonata in B minor

BaL 17.07.21 - Liszt: Piano Sonata in B minor

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