Dream music

[Joseph K]

Having just woken up and wish to capture the dregs of something quite vivid and detailed and which was accompanied by like a film sequence. But the music - I perceived aspects of its technique as well its actual sound (triad pairs from a synthetic scale) even a composer's name of influence (Gerald Barry) what's odd about lucid dreaming (OK, perhaps not that odd) is the kind of analysis of what's perceived... This analysis became part of the content of the dream itself. Anyway, while I only have a few vague scraps of description, I do remember observing my dream like a film, and that this was music I had some how created for this film sequence and I or rather 'I' featured as a character in the sequence.

[cloughie]

Having just woken up and wish to capture the dregs of something quite vivid and detailed and which was accompanied by like a film sequence. But the music - I perceived aspects of its technique as well its actual sound (triad pairs from a synthetic scale) even a composer's name of influence (Gerald Barry) what's odd about lucid dreaming (OK, perhaps not that odd) is the kind of analysis of what's perceived... This analysis became part of the content of the dream itself. Anyway, while I only have a few vague scraps of description, I do remember observing my dream like a film, and that this was music I had some how created for this film sequence and I or rather 'I' featured as a character in the sequence.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_Barry_(composer)#Selected_other_works

[Petrushka]

On the subject of dreams, a few weeks ago I had a very vivid dream in which I was participating in a conversation in a foreign language which I think was either Polish or Hungarian. Now, I don't speak either of those languages and my only knowledge of Hungarian is derived from Bartok's Bluebeard's Castle but I do recall that what I was hearing in my dream made perfect sense and wasn't gobbledegook.

Has anyone else experienced this?

A Google search says that it is known and not uncommon but can only offer an explanation that there must be something deep in the sub-conscious mind that brings it out. However, I'm completely mystified how this can be so in my case.

[Richard Barrett]

there must be something deep in the sub-conscious mind that brings it out. However, I'm completely mystified how this can be so in my case.

I've had similar experiences to this, which I've rationalised by concluding that the language of the conversation wasn't "really" Polish or Hungarian or whatever but was reconstituted by the dreaming mind from scraps of those languages that one has on one's mind and attached to scraps of meaning that on waking one might be able to "reconstruct" something like a conversation from. I wonder whether Chomsky or any of his followers have anything to say about how generative grammar might manifest itself in dreams. Difficult subject to be scientific about though.

On the subject of music "received" in dreams, one of my students was working on this recently. There's a wry anecdote in Berlioz's memoirs about dreaming a new symphony, which I think I've mentioned here before; and three modern pieces said by their composers to have been so received are Stravinsky's Wind Octet, Varèse's Arcana, Ligeti's Apparitions, Kagel's Match (in which he dreamed not only the music but the specific performers he ended up writing it for) and Stockhausen's Trans, the latter two involving visual impressions which were also incorporated into the compositions. I'm sure there are plenty of other examples.

Speaking for myself, whenever musical material appears in a dream I feel somehow compelled to use it, as if it's telling me something about the workings of the imagination. I remember Brian Ferneyhough saying that when he dreams of music it's generally notation rather than sound, and if it's sound it tends to be of the Mantovaniesque light music variety. But he isn't the kind of composer who would let himself incorporate such things! (which is maybe a shame)

[Joseph K]

Perhaps Chomsky (or Chomskians) could attempt to tie it in with the concept of universal grammar?

Thanks for the replies. Weird thing is, I'm not at all familiar with Barry's music, it's possible I heard some of it at a concert by the BCMG a while ago, but that's about it, perhaps I should investigate...

Been having a few more lucid dreams recently, which I like to put down to having given up caffeine...

[Serial_Apologist]

Perhaps Chomsky (or Chomskians) could attempt to tie it in with the concept of universal grammar?

Thanks for the replies. Weird thing is, I'm not at all familiar with Barry's music, it's possible I heard some of it at a concert by the BCMG a while ago, but that's about it, perhaps I should investigate...

Been having a few more lucid dreams recently, which I like to put down to having given up caffeine...

I have to say I do envy people such as yourself who are capable of dreaming music. For one sadly lacking in imagination, I experience the most phenomenal dreams, in terms of vividness and narrative coherence, but I can't ever recall music having played any part in them.

[Richard Barrett]

I can't ever recall music having played any part in them.

Maybe it did but you didn't recognise it as music!

[Serial_Apologist]

Maybe it did but you didn't recognise it as music!

Indeed, that sounds quite possible.

[Joseph K]

I just now woke up after a nap (after originally waking and rising around 4 this morning) and was dreaming some nice music - one of the thoughts I remember having was that I was listening to music through headphones but that I don't recall John McLaughlin's Extrapolation having a double or triple - tracked guitar... it was music like that, but binaural (Some time prior to having this nap I had listened to some of the album Strange Lines and Distances, a binaural album by Richard Barrett, through headphones).

EDIT: just remembered another dream a bit before the one just described was of me being at a festival/rave and listening to electronic music without a beat and thinking how unusual it was to hear this kind of music at this event!

[Mandryka]

I just read the Wikipedia article on Stockhausen’s Trans, it looks like a good article to me. By coincidence I listened to a piece yesterday by Gerhard Stäbler called Traum - no idea if he dreamt it!

[Richard Barrett]

I just read the Wikipedia article on Stockhausen’s Trans, it looks like a good article to me.

Trans gets a lot of attention in the book of interviews between Stockhausen and Jonathan Cott.

[Mandryka]

Trans gets a lot of attention in the book of interviews between Stockhausen and Jonathan Cott.

Book ordered.

(Been really enjoying some of the earlier pieces of Klang - Hoffnung and Treue - in the sun this week. Hoffnung makes me think of Janacek’s 2nd string quartet! Why not? - Rihm liked Janacek so why not Stockhausen?)

Anyway I just typed “Dream” into my music library and then selected at random and something I didn’t even know I had popped up - La Monte Young’s Tortoise’s Dream!

[MickyD]

I can't say that I ever dream of music, but as soon as I wake up, I always have a thread of music in my head which I start humming - it can be anything, but most often a movement from Haydn's symphonies and it usually stays with me throughout the morning!

[Mandryka]

The 1977 Jahreslauf was a dream apparently, very entertaining if a bit too static, too ritualistic, for me - maybe the performance on Stockhausenverlag brings this aspect out too much for my taste.

But it doesn’t matter because listening to it made me realise what a total genius Stockhausen was at writing music with many simultaneous voices - I can never work out whether it’s heterophony or polyphony but whatever it is, it’s very good!

[Joseph K]

Well, what must have been not more than about 15 minutes ago, I was dreaming a song. In my dream the song was sung by a group resembling Oasis, although I am fairly certain it was an original song, and since waking up I have been try to reconstruct the chorus refrain melody on my guitar (replete with harmonies) and I've got somewhere to capturing it, but these things have a tendency to dwindle - as was my experience the other week where upon waking up I went and wrote down a tune which was floating around my head in a dream but if it were to be looked at now is completely unremarkable. But this time is a bit different, what with it being more of a developed song - but perhaps I only think that because I only recently dreamed it - no, I think this time I had to reach for my guitar rather than some manuscript means it's more interesting, it starts with a major sixth melodic interval...