CE Christ Church Cathedral Oxford 5th November, 2014

[DracoM]

Swayne Magnificat - yes.
Howells St Paul's Service is 'great' for me, and given its anxious tone, it is no surprise to find it written within the shadow of the earlier days of WW2

[Gabriel Jackson]

Likewise Mortuos Plango by Jonathan Harvey. I was present at its Winchetser premiere, and it made a huge impression.

A terrific piece but not church music of course. Jonathan's canticles are, like the Tippett, totally unique and are full of things that had never been heard in liturgical music before.

Giles Swayne's Magnificat must surely be one of the most original pieces adopted into the Anglican canon.

It wasn't adopted, it was written for an Anglican cathedral choir - the one under discussion.

It remains a tricky piece to sing and is not especially 'accessible' to the everyman listener.

I thought you didn't approve of accessibility, Ardcarp...!

[DracoM]

<< It wasn't adopted, it was written for an Anglican cathedral choir - the one under discussion.>>

Well, blow me, I could be wrong, but just maybe that's why ardcarp mentioned it?

[Keraulophone]

Personally I don't like the Tippett, but we've had this discussion here before...

...and IIRC, I might have mentioned how one precentor responded, directly after the Nunc: "I still believe in God..."

It's a fantastically thrilling piece to sing (and broadcast, as we did a few years back under Robert Sharpe).

[DracoM]

Keraulophone:

Interesting interface: if a piece is 'thrilling' to sing yet can leave a congregation cold, how will that impact on a DOM / D & C in cathedral foundations?

Yes, of course, you have to keep challenging / exciting and refreshing your choir's appetite for and experience of the huge diversity of liturgical music. But are there also inherent problems for the jobbing DOM in doing this too often? Balance is all, perhaps, but the itch to boldly go must be keen? Promoting living composers, getting new and younger ones in the stream?

Genuinely interested in this question - must be one that many DOMs face.

[jean]

'Adopted into the Anglican canon' was the phrase ardcarp used.

Many pieces are written for particular choirs that (for whatever reason) don't become part of the core repertoire.

[DracoM]

Dead right, jean.

[Gabriel Jackson]

'Adopted into the Anglican canon' was the phrase ardcarp used.

Many pieces are written for particular choirs that (for whatever reason) don't become part of the core repertoire.

Indeed, but "adopted into" implies that it came from outside. (It is in Latin, after all...)

[Simon Biazeck]

Swayne Magnificat - yes.
Howells St Paul's Service is 'great' for me, and given its anxious tone, it is no surprise to find it written within the shadow of the earlier days of WW2

It was written in 1952, I'm afraid, so unless I misunderstand your meaning.... but the tenseness of those immediate post war years seems to be there, or maybe not. If we are to believe HH himself, he penned some of his most remarkable and well known music in circumstances seemingly not conducive to inspiration. The opening of 'Holy is the true light' from Hymnus Paradisi was written on a train station, I think, and 'A Spotless Rose' was penned whilst idly watching some railway yard shunting. The Hymn Tune Michael (All my hope on God is founded) was apparently penned whilst his breakfast egg boiled! I'm not sure I believe all that, but according to his daughter Ursula, he wrote "Mozart-like" at a music desk, not the piano, although he often got himself going by extemporizing at the piano. Quite remarkable.

Back to Gabriel's assertion about Tippett's St John's service. I really like it, but then I love all things Tippett. However if we stick to "the last 50 years" then I think, HH's Kennedy motet and Viri Galilaei are my choice. If I had to choose further back I would probably say Howells' St Paul's service too.

And before you all get your knickers in a twist, I enjoyed the CCCO replay, and I agree with the slow galliard interpretation (it cannot be anything but a strict sesquialtera) in the Byrd providing the remainder of the piece is brisk.

[mw963]

I'm just listening to the broadcast on iplayer (having missed it by exactly an hour!) and am a little surprised to find it's only in mono.

I realise that in 1974 the provision of stereo links back to London wasn't as convenient as it is now, but I'm surprised that Oxford wasn't within range. By 1974 Radio 3 had been in stereo for eight years, and most concert relays were in stereo, the Edinburgh Festival being a notable exception for quite a long time. By the time I started listening to CE in the late 1970s it was only some of the further flung cathedrals that weren't relayed in stereo and it (mono) was the exception rather than the rule. I suppose that if this broadcast was only being transmitted in mono there was no point in rigging for stereo and making a stereo recording on site......

I wonder if Dr Rose is still looking at this thread....?

Very good to hear an archive from forty years ago, Tippett is not my thing at all but still wonderful to be able to listen. I wish our local vicar sounded as grand as what we heard here - personally I miss voices like these!

[DracoM]

<< It was written in 1952, I'm afraid, so unless I misunderstand your meaning.... but the tenseness of those immediate post war years seems to be there...>>

Simon

That is EXACTLY what I meant! Thanks.
Do so agree with you about HH's Take him Earth.
Sorry we don't meet on Tippett!

[AuntyKezia]

I'm with Philip re Patrick Gowers' setting of Viri Galilaei. It was a great favourite with my late cat too, who would always mysteriously appear when the CD reached that particular track. My clearly indicated role at that point was to pick her up so that we could dance around together during the liveliest part of the piece. I often wondered what aspect of the music enabled her to recognise it from afar ...