The Prince and the Composer (Parry)

[Pabmusic]

It was indeed - sorry if I seemed a bit harsh and "picky" over one sentence. Wasn't there a BBC4 programme about Jerusalem and the Fight for Right movement some time ago?

No - you weren't harsh at all. I think Elgar's version is just right for the sort of extrovert occasion that the Last Night is (just the sort of thing Elgar wrote it for, in fact). Elgar uses a notably larger orchestra, including harps and organ, and adds that string countermelody in the second verse (as well as the exuberant 'arrows of desire' upward rush). Parry's is rather subdued, but has a warm glow about it. Some of the part writing in the strings is quite complicated - Parry was an authority on Bach, after all - but it's easy to miss it on a recording. Much as I love his music, he can get 'fussy' at times, so things can look good but be missed in performance.

I didn't see the programme on Jerusalem (pity). Thanks to you and salymap for your welcome.

[french frank]

'Morning, Pabmusic - and welcome also from me

That's an impressively detailed response about Jerusalem and the suffragettes, and one which actually confirms Parry's political views on Fight for Right and women's suffrage. Could I ask where the source material is? - a published work, letters?

[Pabmusic]

Hi. I can't give a detailed reply till next week (if you'd like one, that is) since I'm not at home at the moment, but basically there are three sources. First, many of the standard biographies have bits of the story (ones I can recall are Jeremy Dibble's and Michael Allis's, though I'm not sure who says what) though none has it quite complete. Second, there's lots of correspondence. The most famous is a letter from Parry to Millicent Fawcett agreeing to Jerusalem becoming the Women Voter's Hymn. The quote I recall goes something like "People seem to enjoy singing it and having the vote ought to diffuse a good deal of joy too. So they would combine happily". And of course there are concert programmes to show the first performance at the Fight for Right concert (I think that was in May 1916). I'm not entirely sure where all these things are, but I'd start at the RCM and Shulbrede Priory. Hope this helps.

[VodkaDilc]

I've just watched the programme and found it a pleasant enough way to spend an hour or so.

Two points spring to mind (sorry if they have already been covered):

1 When learning my Music History, many decades ago, we were taught that there was a dual-headed composer/educator called Parry-'n'-Stanford and that their music was not much good; their greatness was said to be in preparing the ground for the English Musical Renaissance. If Parry is now seen as a more important composer, can that be said of Stanford too?

2 One of the academics interviewed during the programme claimed that "Dear Lord and Father of Mankind" was craftily based on at least four "national songs". Any ideas about which? Wasn't it a bit sloppy to say that and not give evidence?

[french frank]

Hope this helps.

Yes, thank you very much

[Serial_Apologist]

I'd like to join others in thanking Pabmusic for putting me right on this story.

[Norfolk Born]

[QUOTE=Pabmusic;58789
I didn't see the programme on Jerusalem (pity). Thanks to you and salymap for your welcome.[/QUOTE]
Welcome indeed! If memory serves, the 'Jerusalem' programme was presented by Billy Bragg (whose version of the song is a favourite with some, myself included).
My overriding impression from the Parry programme was that of a misunderstood public figure trying to rectify what he clearly feels to be the public's (wrong) view of him.
Being musically untrained, I was fascinated by David Owen Norris's analysis of 'Jerusalem'. For the first time, I now have an understanding of WHY it appeals so much to me. It was a wonderful display of lightly worn erudition.

[Nick Armstrong]

Being musically untrained, I was fascinated by David Owen Norris's analysis of 'Jerusalem'. For the first time, I now have an understanding of WHY it appeals so much to me. It was a wonderful display of lightly worn erudition.

Couldn't agree more, ofca! I am slightly trained (Music O level and Grade 8 piano) but don't analyse as I listen, so that kind of analysis is very illuminating for me too.

[Chris Newman]

Yes, welcome to Pabmusic;58789

by Vodkadilc. One of the academics interviewed during the programme claimed that "Dear Lord and Father of Mankind" was craftily based on at least four "national songs". Any ideas about which? Wasn't it a bit sloppy to say that and not give evidence?

Yes, that niggled me too.

Ofcachap and Caliban,
The sooner that David Owen-Norris is put back on Radio 3 (and TV) as a regular feature the better

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

absolutely, can we have more of David Owen Norris please Mr R3? ....

as a direct consequence of the programme and hearing the music i downloaded the complete symphonies [on Chandos; London Phil and Bamert] in my monthly scoop from emusic .... and looking forward to them all, very taken with 4th so far ....

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

absolutely, can we have more of David Owen Norris please Mr R3? ....

He did a Liszt BaL recently

[Serial_Apologist]

6 years ago DON delivered a wonderful R3 programme before a studio audience on Brahms's Op 118 piano pieces, illustrating on the kind of instrument JB would have been composing for. The programme blew me away, unveiling all the canonic structures hidden in the music and deepening my hitherto shallow view of the composer. At one point he directed a gentle but very telling barb at Liszt's harmonic sense. I'm not sure if I would have liked to hear that feature on Liszt.

However, I didn't enjoy his TV programme on the "lost" Elgar piano concerto. On that occasion I felt DON was over-full of himself... and the concerto in question deserved to remain "lost".

S-A

[VodkaDilc]

Is David Owen Norris yet another person who is better on the radio than on television? The danger of slipping into a Patrick Moore impression does seem very close!

[Serial_Apologist]

Is David Owen Norris yet another person who is better on the radio than on television? The danger of slipping into a Patrick Moore impression does seem very close!

YESSS! He was pretty scary!

[Nick Armstrong]

Is David Owen Norris yet another person who is better on the radio than on television? The danger of slipping into a Patrick Moore impression does seem very close!

I know what you mean

But then again, it's stood Moore in good stead for 50-odd years and counting, so it's not a bad precedent to follow if you want a broadcasting career. He's doing something right