Pedants' Paradise

[oddoneout]

Hmmm... 'off', 'draw'. Is this just lack of education or is it the result of dictation-software?

I dislike 'off of', and 'I should of known...' which seem to me to indicate a lack of reading.

"Off of" is part of dialect in some cases, but it is irritating when those who should be taking more care(journalists, article writers and police statements in the case of my local rag) with their written English don't do so, thus spreading the acceptability of inappropriate, ignorant or careless language.*
I wonder if "should of" might in part be the result of hearing "should've" and being uncertain how to write what is heard. That isn't helped as you say by lack of reading - although increasingly the written word is less than good, even in places where there should be an expectation of quality.

* I should clarify that I am not casting nasturtiums on the value of local dialect (indeed I enjoy that of the county I now call home, and have several books written in it), but there is a time and a place, and material for general and wider consumption, such as official statements, is not it.

[kernelbogey]

"Off of" is part of dialect in some cases

Isn't 'off of' also US usage?

[french frank]

'I should of known...' which seem to me to indicate a lack of reading.

'I should've known' = 'I should of' in "spell as you speak", especially if accompanied by their imperfect knowledge of English grammar (i.e. they are English and therefore haven't been taught grammar).

[gurnemanz]

There are shades of pedantry: A pedant (eg me) may object to "off of" as sub-standard usage but it cannot be rejected as grammatically incorrect, unlike "should of" which is syntactically impossible and totally inadmissible.

[oddoneout]

Isn't 'off of' also US usage?

My first thought was that could be the result of early settlers taking their language with them.
Some thoughts here.

https://www.quora.com/How-is-it-that-the-expression-off-of-is-common-in-US-English-where-off-is-used-alone-in-other-English-variants-As-in-the-expression-Get-that-spider-off-of-me-for-example

[french frank]

My first thought was that could be the result of early settlers taking their language with them.
Some thoughts here.
https://www.quora.com/How-is-it-that...me-for-example

I liked the explanation: "I wonder if it began as necessary scansion in a popular song. Perhaps some musician might know?" I can remember one or other of the Beatles (John?) saying it was poor song-writing to add unnecessary words (as 'And I do think' rather than 'I think') to make a line scan.

(I found myself writing 'to add in'' rather than 'to add'. Like 'to meet up' rather than 'to meet').

[kernelbogey]

(I found myself writing 'to add in'' rather than 'to add'. Like 'to meet up' rather than 'to meet').

And tv chefs are fond of saying (I assume it's their normal language) 'fry off', 'blend in' etc and other examples I can't quite call to mind just now. (And I have posted on this before; it's just that I heard Hairy Biker chef Si King saying one of them a day or two ago, man.)

[french frank]

I didn't bother to read a BBC online story last night about Kate Tatler's portrait as I didn't know who Kate Tatler was or why she would have her portrait painted.

('Kate Tatler portrait prompts strong reaction online')

[smittims]

Maybe that's one way to become famous, as in the old American film about the young lady who hired a huge billboard ina city centre and had her name put up there. I suppose it's not even necessary for someone to exist. Isn't there a famous novelist caled Elena Ferranti or some such, who's famous because no-one has seen her. She's said to be a recluse and this has given her books an eclat which makes people want to read them.

My own theory is that they're written by hack 'ghost-writers' employed by the publishers m, as , I suspect , are these celebrity novels supposedly by people famous for being on TV .

[vinteuil]

the old American film about the young lady who hired a huge billboard ina city centre and had her name put up there.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It_Should_Happen_to_You

.

[vinteuil]

BBC News online - " How Rishi Sunak sprung election surprise on Tories"

I think 'sprang' here preferable?

.

[Pulcinella]

BBC News online - " How Rishi Sunak sprung election surprise on Tories"

I think 'sprang' here preferable?

.

This is quite informative (if you can ignore the adverts: a bit like listening to R3!):

https://twominenglish.com/sprang-vs-sprung/

A better (correct) use of sprung would be:

If he had sprung it earlier he might have surprised even more Tories, but delighted others.

[AuntDaisy]

This is quite informative (if you can ignore the adverts: a bit like listening to R3!):
A better (correct) use of sprung would be:
If he had sprung it earlier he might have surprised even more Tories, but delighted others.

Thanks Pulcinella, I live & learn.

Chambers also offers sprong as a Spenserian variant.
"How Rishi Sunak sprong election surprise on Tories" implies sodden springing

[Serial_Apologist]

sodden springing

That's what it's doing in the woods nearby following all the rain.

[gurnemanz]

BBC News online - " How Rishi Sunak sprung election surprise on Tories"

I think 'sprang' here preferable?

.

I would think that 'sprang' is not merely preferable but the only permissable option for the simple past. The error may come about because English is inconsistent in the simple past to past participle vowel change pattern of irregular verbs ending in '-ing'

a - u: sing, ring

u - u: sting, fling, string, swing, cling, wring

Also -ink verbs:

stink, stank, stunk
drink, drank, drunk
but
slink, slunk, slunk