Pedants' Paradise

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Are we back in the supermarket - Less than 10 items > Fewer than 10 items?

This was the difference between Tesco and Waitrose.

[Pabmusic]

This was the difference between Tesco and Waitrose.

Precisely.

[Padraig]

Just musing:

"Less is more"

"Fewer are more"?

[LeMartinPecheur]

It depends on how well established the acronym is. Nato, radar and sonar, for instance, are perfectly acceptable.

As far as 'fewer' is concerned, the rule as I understand it is that it's 'fewer' when dealing with discrete articles (I've bought fewer CDs this year than last) but 'less' when dealing with quantities that have a singular, collective nature. "I'll have less sugar in that tea, please" but "this spoon picks up fewer grains of sugar than that one does". I also recall that more than one authority says there's no justification for the distinction - it's just a convention.

In short as I was taught it, "Less cake, fewer cakes."

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

By the same logic, an amount of cake, a number of cakes.

[french frank]

I also recall that more than one authority says there's no justification for the distinction - it's just a convention.

My answer to that would be that in matters of grammar 'justification' is seldom important. 'Convention' is almost always significant!

[Pabmusic]

My answer to that would be that in matters of grammar 'justification' is seldom important. 'Convention' is almost always significant!

Oh I agree. Most of our 'rules' of grammar are just conventions - some more widely accepted than others.

[mercia]

I've just read a news item about someone being charged with petit larceny - it hadn't occured to me it could be spelt that way, but why not ?

[Sir Velo]

I had an email the other day where inter alia I was told that "we where investigating your complaint".

On a sister forum, the host asked a contributor "what where you looking for?"

[hedgehog]

I think that's a simple blunder occasioned by ignorance along the lines of one of my correspondents who wrote to tell me that something was a feta compli.

Well No! petit larceny is actually acceptable according to a couple of dictionaries. Feta Compli is wonderful, definition: Obligatory (and only) vegetarian dish (spinach and feta pie) found on the less (the majority) inventive restaurant menus.

[vinteuil]

I've just read a news item about someone being charged with petit larceny - it hadn't occured to me it could be spelt that way, but why not ?

'Petit larceny' was the original spelling; and is I think still used in those jurisdictions where it still exists as a misdemeanour.

Wiki tells us:

"Grand larceny

Grand larceny is typically defined as larceny of a more significant amount of property. In the US, it is often defined as an amount valued at $400 or more. In New York, grand larceny refers to amounts of $1,000 or more. Grand larceny is often classified as a felony with the concomitant possibility of a harsher sentence. In Virginia the threshold is only $5 if taken from a person, or $200 if not taken from the person. The same penalty applies for stealing cheques as for cash or other valuables.

Some states (such as North Carolina) use the term "felonious larceny" instead of grand larceny.

The classification of larceny as grand or petit larceny originated in an English statute passed in 1275. Both were felonies. However, the punishment for grand larceny was death while the punishment for petit larceny was forfeiture of property to the crown and whipping. The classification was based on the value of the property taken. The offense was grand larceny if the value of the property taken was greater than twelve pence, approximately the value of a sheep in the thirteenth century.

Most jurisdictions have discarded the grand/petit terminology and use value to classify larcenies as felonies or misdemeanors. "Value" means the fair market value of the property at the time and place taken. Most jurisdictions also make certain larcenies felonies regardless of the value of the property taken. For example, North Carolina General Statutes Section 14 - 72 (b)(1) makes the crime of larceny a felony "without regard to value" if the larceny is (1) from the person (2) committed pursuant to certain types of breaking or enterings (3) of any explosive or incendiary device or (4) of any firearm. The modern spelling is petty larceny for the misdemeanor level. Some states may also charge certain types of larceny as "robbery", "burglary", "theft", "shoplifting", "conversion", and other terms."

[mercia]

could I say that someone is involved in petit crime ? is there any money left in the petit cash ? "oh stop being so petit".
in the term petit larceny, do you think it's pronounced petty ?
this was the news item http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24786388

[Pabmusic]

...in the term petit larceny, do you think it's pronounced petty ?

Yes. 'Petty' is an Anglicisation of 'petit'. The distinction between felony and misdemeanour was abolished in England & Wales in 1967. Larceny disappeared in 1968, being replaced by the statutory offence of theft.

It was usually spelt 'petty' though - for instance, the rank of Petty Officer in the RN is well established, as is petty cash. Until 1967 (or thereabouts) we had petty sessions.

[mercia]

thank you one and all

a diminutive, somewhat childish, female officer who likes stroking the ship's cat = a petting petty petite Petty Officer

time I did something useful

[Serial_Apologist]

I've always felt Petty France to have been an unfortunate misnomer for a place.