Annoying R3 Trailers

[Ein Heldenleben]

That's a politician's trick as far as I'm concerned. There is patently more than one irrelevant and intrusive interruption each hour, so dismissing the whole issue/irritation by saying there is only one trail doesn't answer the complaint even if it's technically true.

If by trail he means recorded trail he is probably right . There’s only been one since 12.00 and it’s now 13.39 with the next junction in 20 minutes. A typical BBC One junction would have a minimum of four trails - perhaps more in peak time. Believe me R3 listeners are getting off lightly.

[french frank]

If by trail he means recorded trail he is probably right .

So why not point out to him that the non-'built trails' are equally disruptive and annoying? Built trails cost money: maybe R3 doesn't warrant money being spent on small audiences so they have trails that cost nothing because presenters are working anyway?

[Ein Heldenleben]

So why not point out to him that the non-'built trails' are equally disruptive and annoying? Built trails cost money: maybe R3 doesn't warrant money being spent on small audiences so they have trails that cost nothing because presenters are working anyway?

To be honest FF built radio trails cost very little - voice recorded at the end of a studio session and probably mixed very quickly on whatever desktop audio gear it is they use these. days. You wouldn’t believe how quickly even a TV trail can be thrown together. The ability to access material internally across the entire BBC archive and live system is a wonder to behold.

[french frank]

To be honest FF built radio trails cost very little

I wasn't suggesting they cost much but they are an extra cost, and in the context in which trails are being discussed here it seemed as if SJ was speaking only of built trails (which, if the situation is the same as a few years ago have a designated member of R3 staff spending time on them) rather than presenter announcements. Both are annoyingly disruptive.

It was at the point when I started wondering about what irrelevance the presenter would be telling me about when the music finished that I gave up on Morning on 3. I never actually graduated to Breakfast so I'm obviously even more sensitive to such annoyances than others!

[Ein Heldenleben]

I wasn't suggesting they cost much but they are an extra cost, and in the context in which trails are being discussed here it seemed as if SJ was speaking only of built trails (which, if the situation is the same as a few years ago have a designated member of R3 staff spending time on them) rather than presenter announcements. Both are annoyingly disruptive.

It was at the point when I started wondering about what irrelevance the presenter would be telling me about when the music finished that I gave up on Morning on 3. I never actually graduated to Breakfast so I'm obviously even more sensitive to such annoyances than others!

At the risk of being a pedant and a know it all in fact trails SAVE money. A twenty second put out sixty times would save potentially twenty minutes of needle time. And if radio is like TV you don’t pay copyright for material extracted from programmes that have been recently or are about to be transmitted. But there does have to be an associated programme.

[pastoralguy]

And now every work/artist/performance is somehow linked to the Proms…!

[LMcD]

If by trail he means recorded trail he is probably right . There’s only been one since 12.00 and it’s now 13.39 with the next junction in 20 minutes. A typical BBC One junction would have a minimum of four trails - perhaps more in peak time. Believe me R3 listeners are getting off lightly.

That shows a degree of cunning that would cause Baldrick to gasp in admiration

[french frank]

At the risk of being a pedant and a know it all in fact trails SAVE money. A twenty second put out sixty times would save potentially twenty minutes of needle time. And if radio is like TV you don’t pay copyright for material extracted from programmes that have been recently or are about to be transmitted. But there does have to be an associated programme.

How do the regular plugs for whatever it happens to be not also save needle time without any copyright liability? They're just written into the script. I did a cartoon strip 20 years ago* where RW was urging the presenter to read the announcements a bit more slowly so that there would be fewer music tracks needed.

* just checked - created 6 July 2003.

[Ein Heldenleben]

How do the regular plugs for whatever it happens to be not also save needle time without any copyright liability? They're just written into the script. I did a cartoon strip 20 years ago where RW was urging the presenter to read the announcements a bit more slowly so that there would be fewer music tracks needed.

Not sure I understand the question but if you don’t have any music in the recorded trail there is obviously no music copyright to pay. The beauty of trails is you can repeat them endlessly that’s where you save . If the music in the trail is extracted from the programme it’s trailing then there is usually no additional payment over that for the programme use.

Only thing is the rules do change and my info is from TV not radio. If the music used in the trail isn’t from the trailed programme then normal royalties are payable.

The needletime payments are very hefty : much more than streaming royalties per stream - another reason why ultimately the streamers will take over - their operating costs are so much lower.

[french frank]

Not sure I understand the question but if you don’t have any music in the recorded trail there is obviously no music copyright to pay.

The point was that SJ was avoiding the issue if he was only talking about built trails. If R3 really doesn't have the funds to pay for the necessary needle time, wouldn't it be better to confine the speech element to 'contextualising' the music? Some people would say "too much talk" and if they also love the clever trails they'd be doubly annoyed. People can be strange.

[LMcD]

From: Controller
To: Producer, Sunday Morning
Could Sarah please gush at length about the Proms. This will NOT, technically, be a trailer, so we can plug Night Tracks with a 'real' trailer within the same hour.

[oddoneout]

I hesitate to raise this - it may be a mirage or lulling into false sense of security - but there seems to have been a reduction in the irritating, unnecessary and obtrusive interruptions in the past few days. I don't know if there has has been a corresponding in presenter equivalents - I don't now listen beyond Breakfast - but not having to reach for the mute button several times an hour has been a pleasant change; the infrequency has meant I've mostly just blanked them out, although the car crash interruption to the Music Map thing* did cause a reaction.

*A puzzling disappointment, another case, like Inside Music, where what the build-up and blurb said did not deliver for me. I don't know who it was intended for or what its purpose. Something that stuck out was mention of Phrygian mode, but no explanation of what that was, just "two pieces of music written in ..." (Barber Adagio and a John Coltrane piece), which would hardly have helped in relation to the RVW piece that was the focus(supposedly) of the programme.

[LMcD]

I hesitate to raise this - it may be a mirage or lulling into false sense of security - but there seems to have been a reduction in the irritating, unnecessary and obtrusive interruptions in the past few days. I don't know if there has has been a corresponding in presenter equivalents - I don't now listen beyond Breakfast - but not having to reach for the mute button several times an hour has been a pleasant change; the infrequency has meant I've mostly just blanked them out, although the car crash interruption to the Music Map thing* did cause a reaction.

*A puzzling disappointment, another case, like Inside Music, where what the build-up and blurb said did not deliver for me. I don't know who it was intended for or what its purpose. Something that stuck out was mention of Phrygian mode, but no explanation of what that was, just "two pieces of music written in ..." (Barber Adagio and a John Coltrane piece), which would hardly have helped in relation to the RVW piece that was the focus(supposedly) of the programme.

It seems to me that there are now more 'trailers' from presenters than specially recorded ones. There also seem to be more 'back trailers' encouraging listeners to visit Sounds for a recent broadcast they may have missed or might like to hear again.

[smittims]

One swallow doesn't make a summer, oddoneout. Yes, we will find a temorary lull in irritating trailers from time to time, but I can't say it's what Winnie would call 'the beginning of the end'.

[oddoneout]

It seems to me that there are now more 'trailers' from presenters than specially recorded ones. There also seem to be more 'back trailers' encouraging listeners to visit Sounds for a recent broadcast they may have missed or might like to hear again.

I suppose I've got so used to the in-programme and end of programme Sounds puffs which have been around for quite some time now that I automatically stop listening for the requisite time and tune back in again when normal service is resumed! There may well be more presenter generated promo material - but as I don't really listen to much now( the April refresh has been such a success...) - Breakfast is the only regular, and the radio goes off shortly after that finishes - I can't comment from experience. It would certainly be a way round the issue if complaints have been taken notice of/reached the attention of someone important?