Spag Bol

[mangerton]

With difficulty? It's obvious that thee and me have a discerning palate! I'm still baffled by the inclusion of sugar (and the failed attempt of molasses) in a meat dish ......... My spag bol is very simple and the secret is to simmer it for a very long time and, perhaps, if it needs any thickening then a small squeeze of puree. I also prefer to use lamb rather than beef.

Anna, I know my mother, like many Scotswomen, always adds a little sugar when making Scotch broth - based of course on a meat stock. I once asked her why, and she said it was because her mother did. And so on ad infinitum, probably! Still, there must be a reason. Molasses would definitely be too bitter.

[Serial_Apologist]

A rather baffling recipe, on two counts. Firstly, it does not contain tomatoes only tomato puree and secondly - three teaspoons of sugar? Why would it be necessary to add sugar? The celery is not odd, my sister always adds it (I would never do so, much as I like celery in other dishes) and Keraulophone is correct regarding adding depth with chicken liver and I also use tagliatelle (fresh) rather than spaghetti (makes it tidier to eat)

Aside from the chicken liver (being a veggie I substitute vegetable protein mince for beef ditto) and talk of celery, which is strong-tasting, fine when raw (eg in salads) but when cooked rather like I'd imagine urine would taste, I'd agree with Anna here, especially as regards tomatoes. I'd add spices of own preference (tarragon, marjoram), tomato ketchup rather than tomato puree, which is very acid, and, the essential, a few drops of Lea & Perrins.

[Anna]

O Lor.... Anna and vindetable, joint leaders of the British League of Celery Fascists! "Oh it's so inoffensive"... IT'S VILE! That bottled V8 juice - liquid hell

I take it that the engagement is off then? And, you don't like hot cherries, well I make a mean cherry clafoutis so that proves we really were not suited in the first place!!
mangerton: I think the inclusion of sugar was the belief that tomatoes were somehow bitter when cooked. I find, with tinned soups, Heinz are the worst for the quantity of sugar included, best soups are in fact Baxters, checking the labels very few of their soups contain sugar.

tomato ketchup rather than tomato puree

But, ketchup is brimming with sugar, it's the second ingredient, followed by vinegar. Tom puree is merely toms and citric acid. And, excuse me, tarragon in a spag bol? Marjoram, yes, basil, yes, but never, never tarragon! That is a truly evil herb that overpowers and throttles everything it touches.

[Serial_Apologist]

O Lor.... Anna and vindetable, joint leaders of the British League of Celery Fascists! "Oh it's so inoffensive"... IT'S VILE! That bottled V8 juice - liquid hell

I'm surprised at Mme vindetable, allowing celery salt anywhere near her quail's eggs.

I'm also sort of with her in the matter of apricots. I can only eat them fresh - stew the buggers and I'll run a mile.

(Mind you I don't really like hot fruit of any kind - especially cherries but also baked apples etc etc. Apple pie works... and pears are the exception, they can be delicious hot)

I digress.

In short, my regards the most sympathetic to Mme vindetable

Agreed on all counts, Califerous . Those baked apples with sheeps droppings - sorry, currants - with their skins leathered by the cooking process, that we were forced "for our own good" to eat at school...

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Spag Bol, of course, should not actually involve spaghetti, and I'm impressed to see that it doesn't get a mention above. In Italy, tagliatelle usually accompanies this style of ragu.

Didn't know this! (So it should be "Tag Bol", then?)

I like the idea of chicken liver: inspired!

[Tapiola]

Gosh, I go away for an hour and all hell breaks loose!

The first point I should make is that I am a rather boorish cook. I add sugar to the mix to take the edge off the puree (which I perhaps should not be using in such great quantity anyway) and to cater for my young children. I try to avoid giving them too much sugar the rest of the time, nor drinks containing aspartame (which is the norm in diluting drinks these days I am afraid). Interesting, Mangerton, regarding the sugar in sauces in Scotland.

I like the thought of chicken livers though, wonder of I could sneak them in next time and serve to my offal-loathing family.

As for the texture of the celery, it is chopped so fine that it more or less disintegrates when simmered for 1.25 hours.

[Nick Armstrong]

I take it that the engagement is off then? And, you don't like hot cherries, well I make a mean cherry clafoutis so that proves we really were not suited in the first place!!

Thank heavens we found out now! Blessings on you, Taps!

[Anna]

I add sugar to the mix to take the edge off the puree (which I perhaps should not be using in such great quantity anyway)

Exactly! Try using fresh tomatoes or a good quality tinned variety (like Cirio) and you won't need to use sugar, the sweetness of tomatoes au naturel is perfect. Would you put sugar on a tomato salad?

[kernelbogey]

My Italian aunt, who had trained as a cook, always added a little sugar to her ragu.

I haven't yet listened to the Anna del Conte link, but I believe that one 'authentic' recipe for ragu calls for two meats always to be used - for example (I think) veal and pork.

One glaring difference between 'spag bol' as served in this country and the ragu you are served in Italy is that the former is usually cooked for the shortest viable time, so the minced beef continues to have a grainy texture; whereas ragu is cooked for a long time so that because the fibres of the meat are cooked away it's close to being a sauce. I sometimes will let my ragu cook for 2-3 hours, producing a very different, rich dark red sauce.

[Anna]

Thank heavens we found out now! Blessings on you, Taps!

Well, I'm keeping the (admittedly cheap, even by your standards) ring!!
I'm on kernelbogey's wavelength, my ragu is cooked for minimum of 2 hours, it then all breaks down into a delicious sauce, rich, dark, and delicious.

[kernelbogey]

I'm on kernelbogey's wavelength, my ragu is cooked for minimum of 2 hours, it then all breaks down into a delicious sauce, rich, dark, and delicious.

I'll pop over later with a bottle of Barolo, Anna.

[Anna]

I'll pop over later with a bottle of Barolo, Anna.

Gosh! You're welcome! I will also have garlic bread slices to mop up the juices

[kernelbogey]

Gosh! You're welcome! I will also have garlic bread slices to mop up the juices

[Nick Armstrong]

Gosh! You're welcome! I will also have garlic bread slices to mop up the juices

She moves on so quickly

A bottle of Barolo and *pffffffft* it's Arrivederci !

[Nick Armstrong]

Just one word, kernel.

Rebound.