Internet landline connectivity

[Serial_Apologist]

Today my new Vodafone contract began. Having been supplied with a connector, I did as instructed, disconnecting the land line at the wall and connecting through the connector provided into one of the green ports on the back of the wireless connector. The phone buzzed, indicating the new connection to be working OK; however my internet was down. Assuming in my ignorance that the internet was now to be somehow connected through what had been the landline phone, I had not re-connected the landline to the old BT socket at the wall, as this was not included in the instruction given. I therefore re-connected the LAN line with the landline, and now everything is running OK.

Effectively this means that I am using my old landline for the internet, but not for my phone, which, since Vodaphone have done something at their end to change it, now only operates through my wireless connector. The explanation given on the Vodafone home phone setup guide states that "The traditional copper cable phone network is on the way out, and by 2025 everyone will be moving to digital phone lines. With your Vodafone Digital Voice Landline you're set up and future ready". Aside from that neologismic ending, this leaves me wondering what about my actual internet connection when the change comes? Will it, too, plug into the back of the wireless connector via the LAN line?

[french frank]

Cannot help with this. BT informed me that my landline service was being disconnected and I would need to have a digital phone, operating wirelessly with the router (they also gave me an extra handset because I said, Oi, I used to have two handsets, neither of which now work). Somehow I managed to connect both new handsets with the router and as long as the internet connection is functioning - and there has been no power cut - all is sort of all right. And I have voicemail which is a nuisance because I'm not used to that so people leave me messages and I don't notice them.

[Pulcinella]

SA: I'm a bit confused (and perhaps you are too!).
You say 'old BT socket'.
Is your new Vodafone contract for both landline and internet or just landline?
Are you still paying for your BT internet connection?
I don't mean to scare you, but perhaps you need to check you've completely transferred over if that was your intention.
You probably just mean the original socket, which now has no BT association!

[Dave2002]

This issue may, unfortunately, become relevant for us soon. We have been informed that there are plans to install FTTH in our area - as part of a drive in Scotland to serve more rural areas. I have also been asked to sign a wayleave to allow people to come and dig up our drive and/or garden, which so far I have refused to sign. I spoke to a legal representative of the firm trying to do the work, but of course he didn't have a clue about the technicalities. I was supposed also to get a call back from the project manager - but needless to say that hasn't happened.

One point I made was that if the installation has real force, and backing by government, then there isn't much point in asking me - as the proponents will have a legal right to do the work anyway.
Otherwise I could insist that the fibre cable goes some other way - round our property. Admittedly if it went along the road that might add 30-40 metres, so in terms of transmission delay would add between 10-20 micro seconds each way to the communications on any active link. Gamers might be concerned, but generally we don't have a major throughput problem, or even a ping problem - but we do often get buffering and other issues. Those may be more likely to be due to glitches at the origin servers than a "slow" link - here I use the word "slow" carefully - as generally most people do not understand. The data may appear to be coming slowly, or the responses may be slow, but usually any measurements suggest that the links themselves are fast, with any problems due to other factors. The light signals should be coming at around 2 x 1o^8 metres/second, though with additional delays/slowdowns due to repeaters and other parts of the communications infrastructure.

[Serial_Apologist]

SA: I'm a bit confused (and perhaps you are too!).
You say 'old BT socket'.
Is your new Vodafone contract for both landline and internet or just landline?

It just says Home Broadband and Phone on the original 2019 paperwork agreement, so presumably landline and internet.

Are you still paying for your BT internet connection?

What was explained to me when I signed up with Vodafone was that everything would now be incorporated into my payments, which would all now be to to Vodafone. Since I was still using the old landline I naturally assumed Vodafone would be paying BT rent for that. Who else owns the landline, if not BT?
.

You probably just mean the original socket, which now has no BT association!

Yes that's what I meant. The landline obviously still works, whoever owns it, because my internet was down until I re-plugged the LAN cable back into one of the ports on the double connection I'd previously inserted for both the LAN and the landline phone. (The other port had had the phone connected through it).

[Pulcinella]

It just says Home Broadband and Phone on the original 2019 paperwork agreement, so presumably landline and internet.



What was explained to me when I signed up with Vodafone was that everything would now be incorporated into my payments, which would all now be to to Vodafone. Since I was still using the old landline I naturally assumed Vodafone would be paying BT rent for that. Who else owns the landline, if not BT?
.


Yes that's what I meant. The landline obviously still works, whoever owns it, because my internet was down until I re-plugged the LAN cable back into one of the ports on the double connection I'd previously inserted for both the LAN and the landline phone. (The other port had had the phone connected through it).

Just wanted you to make sure you weren't suddenly going to get stung by a BT bill for a service you were no longer using!

[oddoneout]

This issue may, unfortunately, become relevant for us soon. We have been informed that there are plans to install FTTH in our area - as part of a drive in Scotland to serve more rural areas. I have also been asked to sign a wayleave to allow people to come and dig up our drive and/or garden, which so far I have refused to sign. I spoke to a legal representative of the firm trying to do the work, but of course he didn't have a clue about the technicalities. I was supposed also to get a call back from the project manager - but needless to say that hasn't happened.

One point I made was that if the installation has real force, and backing by government, then there isn't much point in asking me - as the proponents will have a legal right to do the work anyway.
Otherwise I could insist that the fibre cable goes some other way - round our property. Admittedly if it went along the road that might add 30-40 metres, so in terms of transmission delay would add between 10-20 micro seconds each way to the communications on any active link. Gamers might be concerned, but generally we don't have a major throughput problem, or even a ping problem - but we do often get buffering and other issues. Those may be more likely to be due to glitches at the origin servers than a "slow" link - here I use the word "slow" carefully - as generally most people do not understand. The data may appear to be coming slowly, or the responses may be slow, but usually any measurements suggest that the links themselves are fast, with any problems due to other factors. The light signals should be coming at around 2 x 1o^8 metres/second, though with additional delays/slowdowns due to repeaters and other parts of the communications infrastructure.

If you haven't already seen it this may be of interest. Has there been any mention of payment?

https://www.openreach.com/help-and-support/obtaining-wayleaves

I had dealings with the wayleave department years ago when Openreach dug a trench across my front lawn - came home to find two burly foreigners in an unmarked van working, and said trench from pavement to front door. Claimed I had requested a landline installation. Turned out that there was a mistake on their paperwork and it was for next door...Longstory short, being Openreach I had no way of getting the matter sorted as they don't talk to the public, and so in desperation I decided to apply for wayleave payment for the cabling to run across my land to enable my neighbour's connection. It piqued someone's interest sufficiently to get in touch and as it was a real person with, it seemed, a certain amount of freedom to solve problems a way was found to remove and make good the work, and finally give the neighbour her connection. I put in several formal complaints, including one to the BT CEO and one to a woman who was supposed to be the person who dealt with the really difficult complaints, pointing out that it was criminal trespass and as such I wanted compensation for the damage and the months it had taken me to get the issue resolved. There had been added worry for me as the house was supposed to be going on the market but wouldn't have been able to proceed if the issue wasn't solved. CEO didn't reply and woman sent a very snotty letter saying I had turned down an earlier £20 goodwill gesture(when I declined it I pointed out that a "goodwill" payment was totally inappropriate, not least as by that time it didn't even cover the cost of telephone calls and letters) I was not due compensation, there was no way I was going to get a bean, and the case was now closed.
What had been achieved was adequate in terms of solving the immediate issues and I couldn't face continuing to battle with BT so admitted defeat. Some of the accounts of other people's experiences I came across from online searches during that time suggested I had got off lightly in terms of inconvenience and damage...

[Dave2002]

I would have held out for a minimum of £200. Those "goodwill" gestures are often pathetic beyond contempt.

Didn't affect me, but at one time I think British Gas claimed they could fit pipes under houses. Indeed they could it seems, but it was reported that one house owner was then very surprised to see some sort of drill thing coming up and ruining his living room floor - might even have been a weekend. "Ah - missed" was the response. "It was supposed to go next door!" I'd want £500 for that amount of damage.

[gradus]

After asking our ISP to upgrade to fibre from our ADSL connection we lost all broadband service for over a month and neither the ISP nor BT could find the problem. In the end BT just gave up. Our ISP told us that BT were devoting less and less resource to sorting out problems such as ours as everyone is going to fibre. Two weeks later BT got round to hooking us up to fibre and service restarted however our village is still copper cable from the fibre service cabinet to the houses. I have no idea what happens next, presumably we will all need fibre connections to our houses.

[Dave2002]

I was told several things in my phone call about the wayleave situation to the legal guy who didn't know about technology.

1. If I agreed to the wayleave - it would make connection to fibre easier - even if I didn't want it immediately.

2. If I later wanted fibre connection I'd probably be charged [more] if I didn't agree to the wayleave.

3. BT [presumably OpenReach] are intending to disconnect our copper link in 2025.

I didn't know about point 3. We have mostly satisfactory service by whatever technology we currently have as the cabinet for local distribution is maybe only 200 metres away.

Quite often we get buffering issues, but that's very unlikely to be due to data rates. Mostly when I run speed tests on the links we get well over 50 Mbps for downloads, with acceptably short pings, and uploads at 18 Mbps and up.

Gamers might want shorter delays, but the buffering and glitches we experience are likely to be further away or at the origin servers.

Also the "threat" of later charges, versus - we will come onto your property and install things "for free", and you'll either get a deal with the provider, or it will be low cost later is slightly coercive.
Without having a plan for how the cables are to be laid I'm still not enthralled.

Oh - one more point "It'll make your house easier to sell later if it's fibre ready" .... MMMMM!

I'm actually not against all of this, but until I know how the proposed cable is to run - with call-backs as promised - why should I agree to sign for something I don't know enough about?