Acquiring ‘Surround Sound’

[Katzelmacher]

As I seem to have acquired a few 5.1 mixes, I’m interested in acquiring surround sound.

My existing system - purchased in 2009 - consists of Cambridge Audio amp and player and Mordaunt Short speakers.

I don’t have a pre-amp, which I believe is mandatory.

Can anyone advise on whether I can adapt my current system, or do I need to purchase an entirely new one?

[HighlandDougie]

I've had a surround system since 2004, starting out with a DVD/CD player, pre-amp and separate two-channel and three-channel power amps plus 5 KEF speakers. Since then, the speakers have stayed the same (with the addition of a sub-woofer) but various boxes have come and gone. Unless you want to go down buying a pre-amp and separate 3-channel power amp route, my advice would be to take the easy option and buy an AV integrated amp to replace the Cambridge Audio one. I've done so, buying one made by Denon. As such amps seem to be like TVs with "this year's model" not doing a lot more than "last year's model", the one I bought was half the price of the current model but seemed to do much the same - supposed upgrades seem mainly to be concerned with the video rather than the audio side. Anyway, something like a Denon AVR-X3700H or AVR-X3500H. Cheaper and more expensive models also exist.

You could use it with your existing CD player but something like the Sony UBPX 800M2 would give you SACD and BluRay playback for about £300 - again worth shopping around. I use one as a TV supporting system in the living room with my 4K TV plus Marantz Amp plus ProAc speakers here in France and it sounds remarkably good, even with normal CDs.

You could use your M-S speakers as the front pair with the AV amp then buy further M-S speakers for the corners (Richer Sounds seem to be selling a pair for about £60 in their clearance) and a centre speaker to suit your budget.

I should also add that, as you will now be in the land of AV (rather than just A), you can use HDMI connectors/cables. At least one of the HDMI sockets on both a player such as the aforementioned Sony and an AV amp such as the Denon will be labelled e-ARC (enhanced audio return channel) which simplifies connectivity issues and improves audio quality. No need for anything other than a standard HDMI cable.

[Bryn]

If going for the "easy option" mentioned by HG, I would also suggest making sure the now ubiquitous USB connection in the player can handle a wide range of CODECs and channel arrangements. I found my, now a little long in the tooth, Cambridge Azur multi-disc-format deck distinctly lacking in this respect. A lack which they chose not to rectify via firmware update. I now have an Oppo which serves me very well. Unfortunately, Oppo have since pulled out to the relevant market. The Oppo can even play Hi-res 5.1 or 5.0 FLACs via its USB input.

[RichardB]

OR there is the route of using a multichannel audio interface and a set of powered speakers connected directly to it.

[richardfinegold]

If the OP is willing is hardwire the speakers, then the path that HD suggests, using an AVR, is the simplest. And due to the “planned obsolescence “ strategy of the industry, there is a thriving second hand market for AVRs. I recommend buying a used unit at a very low cost just to see if multichannel is for you. If it works out you may never need to upgrade.
RB suggests wireless speakers and certainly there are advantages there. I have no personal experience there. I have read that there are phase matching issues with front and back channels, and then all the usual IT issues might arise here as well. If going wireless then the most recent equipment might be the more satisfactory

[RichardB]

RB suggests wireless speakers

I didn't suggest wireless speakers but powered speakers. I don't see the point in wireless speakers really.

[Bryn]

I didn't suggest wireless speakers but powered speakers. I don't see the point in wireless speakers really.

Am I right in thinking wireless speakers involve the use of a lossy CODEC to transfer the audio to the speakers?

[RichardB]

Am I right in thinking wireless speakers involve the use of a lossy CODEC to transfer the audio to the speakers?

I'm not sure about that. It seems obvious though that any kind of wireless transmission is potentially going to be less reliable at transferring information than a wired connection, and if you aren't actually moving the equipment around all the time (as with headphones) there's no advantage at all in a wireless system, apart from not having to see unsightly cables, but if I worried about unsightly cables I would probably have made some different life choices.

[richardfinegold]

I didn't suggest wireless speakers but powered speakers. I don't see the point in wireless speakers really.

I am not aware of powered speakers in a multichannel arrangement. Usually powered speakers are attached to each other in a master-slave arrangement in stereo. Not sure how that would work in a 5.1 setup. Who manufactures them?

[RichardB]

I am not aware of powered speakers in a multichannel arrangement. Usually powered speakers are attached to each other in a master-slave arrangement in stereo. Not sure how that would work in a 5.1 setup. Who manufactures them?

Usually powered speakers are used in multichannel studios, live performance setups and so on, being connected directly to mixers or multichannel audio interfaces - they're manufactured by very many companies. Granted, such systems aren't generally met with in domestic situations, although Linn's higher-end speakers were for many years "active" in this way (now their flagship speakers also contain their own DACs).

[Ein Heldenleben]

I'm not sure about that. It seems obvious though that any kind of wireless transmission is potentially going to be less reliable at transferring information than a wired connection, and if you aren't actually moving the equipment around all the time (as with headphones) there's no advantage at all in a wireless system, apart from not having to see unsightly cables, but if I worried about unsightly cables I would probably have made some different life choices.

Thing is the unsightly cables are the whole point!

[Cockney Sparrow]

I am not aware of powered speakers in a multichannel arrangement. Usually powered speakers are attached to each other in a master-slave arrangement in stereo. Not sure how that would work in a 5.1 setup. Who manufactures them?

My enlightenment about active (each speaker has its own amplifiers) speakers came in the control room of a London recording studio, and a (somewhat rare, then) review around that time of some active speakers in The Gramophone. I went over to active speakers for all serious music reproduction. (The clarity is also useful on the pair surrounding the TV, in dealing with the very poor sound which crops up all the time).

If one is going into 5 .1 (is that 6 in all? - I've never been tempted) speakers then from what little I've gleaned, the rear pair don't need to be hugely capable. There are some decent looking active speakers available and recommendations I have seen are to consider a pro-audio supplier - but that is from a community of active speaker users. Yamaha have a reputation for competent, decent speakers in that field and I think at Studiospares (below) most will be active speakers.

For example a Yamaha HS5 Studio Monitor in this store has a photo of the back plate showing its powered even though the headline doesn't include that word. And just to say, of course there are cheaper and more expensive speakers available and several brands.
https://www.studiospares.com/headpho...tor_274610.htm

I suppose what you wouldn't get would be a demo and the salesmanship of an audio dealer - I haven't submitted to a demo in one since my first pair of actives, as the sound of the manufacturer I used worked for me. Having said that, if I hadn't used previously my own pair of actives, before buying 5 or 6 speakers, I'd want to hear them.

[richardfinegold]

It seems that the powered speakers being discussed here are for professional audio use. Powered wireless multichannel speakers are available for domestic use but the reviewers frequently mention phase lag issues.
I have two multichannel systems in my home. One is the living room and one is in the basement. The two rooms are directly parallel vertically and the basement has a drop ceiling which is perfect for concealing all kinds of wires. I drilled small holes in the floor of the living room for that system that are behind the equipment wall (I guess I will have to worry about patching them when we move).
Rear speakers provide mostly ambience, but I do have many recordings on the German Tacet label, which delights in placing the listener in the middle of the ensemble perspective. My basement has better rear speakers than the living room and those recordings sound best there. In short, try to make the surrounds a reasonable match with the fronts.
5.1 designates two fronts, two rears, a center channel, and .1 is for the sub. Some people use more than 1 sub. And I won’t even discuss the Atmos Terminology

[RichardB]

If one is going into 5 .1 (is that 6 in all? - I've never been tempted) speakers then from what little I've gleaned, the rear pair don't need to be hugely capable.

5.1 = 5 channels plus subwoofer. I would say there's a good case for the five principal speakers to be matched. Yamaha make some good active speakers but when I replace my current setup I will be going for Genelec which are used in many studios (including the ones I work in).

[Cockney Sparrow]

2 speaker systems are the limit of my interest and ambition. Even if it were different, the Wife Acceptance Factor here is tolerant but not overjoyed at my present living room speakers and I won't be getting one of the spare rooms assigned to listening, nor 5.1 speakers. Accordingly time lags, ATMOS etc are not where I need to go. In the past I did use a Receiver for the tuner and 2 channel stereo - a superseded model in AV terms so great value. However, beyond 2 channel stereo it seemed fearsomely complicated with all the settings, audio formats- setting inputs/outputs etc. Having active speakers - mine have an integral DAC - is simplicity itself in comparison - connect a CD player, put a streamer on the back (I use Chromecast for Radio 3 / 4) or any unit which can deliver a digital input.

Although the Bass in my floorstanders seem very adequate and I'm only occasionally listening out for much Bass - for example a 32ft or pedal stop (Mahler 8 again, etc) I do actually have a sub-woofer and a recent discussion on audio / Bass / sub-woofers has set me thinking. I could tuck it away out of sight, and find out if it makes a tangible difference.