Prom 70: Wednesday 7th September at 7.00 p.m. (Bridge, Birtwistle, Holst)

[cavatina]

"The low frequency, high decibel sound is emitted in bands that resonate in certain body cavities, causing the disturbance of body organs" [...]
doesn't/didn't the RAH organ have a 64' stop? not sure what you hear/experience when it is drawn, probably just vibration.

Well, when I was spread out luxuriating on the floor for the Reger and Franck, I felt the low notes rumbling up through my whole body. Putting two and two together, I'm just now realising why I thought the whole experience was so intensely pleasurable. "Abdominal effects" indeed.

Er, nevermind. I'm definitely looking forward to next year though.

[BudgieJane]

Er, nevermind. I'm definitely looking forward to next year though.

I'm seeing my shrink next week, and I'm thinking of discussing addiction and how to deal with the inability to get your daily fix.

It looks like you're addicted to the Proms as well

[hackneyvi]

Birtwistle's Violin Concerto - The soloist played very beautifully but except the closing bars with the castanets and the comic 'plink' at the close, this was another blank for me. It seemed less raw, was even smooth for HB but generally featureless; no two consecutive notes, no chord, no rhythm, little in the orchestration caught or held my attention. This was less cluttered than other pieces I've heard - the notion of cramped music brings Brahms to mind - but the greater space and peace didn't allow any more music to forefront.

I have never worked out what I'm to listen to with HB; the music is so hard to hear that it might as well be played through a cassette recorder in the rush hour by a cyclist on the A13. I wish I could hear HB.

[Serial_Apologist]

Birtwistle's Violin Concerto - The soloist played very beautifully but except the closing bars with the castanets and the comic 'plink' at the close, this was another blank for me. It seemed less raw, was even smooth for HB but generally featureless; no two consecutive notes, no chord, no rhythm, little in the orchestration caught or held my attention. This was less cluttered than other pieces I've heard - the notion of cramped music brings Brahms to mind - but the greater space and peace didn't allow any more music to forefront.

I have never worked out what I'm to listen to with HB; the music is so hard to hear that it might as well be played through a cassette recorder in the rush hour by a cyclist on the A13. I wish I could hear HB.

I'll be "listening again" tomorrow, hackneyvi - I'll let you know my views on the Birtwistle.

[hackneyvi]

I'll be "listening again" tomorrow, hackneyvi - I'll let you know my views on the Birtwistle.

Birtwistle's Violin Concerto - The soloist played very beautifully but except the closing bars with the castanets and the comic 'plink' at the close, this was another blank for me. It seemed less raw, was even smooth for HB but generally featureless; no two consecutive notes, no chord, no rhythm, little in the orchestration caught or held my attention. This was less cluttered than other pieces I've heard - the notion of cramped music brings Brahms to mind - but the greater space and peace didn't allow any more music to forefront.

I have never worked out what I'm to listen to with HB; the music is so hard to hear that it might as well be played through a cassette recorder in the rush hour by a cyclist on the A13. I wish I could hear HB.

How did you get on, SA?

I listened again today and I take it all back. This is recognisably a concerto and Christian Tetzlaf's playing - perhaps not only his but significantly his - gave the piece glamour, I felt. Birtrwistle said he wanted the fiddle to be heard and what a performance - his music sings, rings, grazes, drawls and all sorts else, I'm sure. There are many fine moments; I love the bouncing effect of the fiddle at the start and throughout, some very friendly syncopation, the dubious growl of double basses and the ominous bite of the castanets. A second time, the dialogues were less apparant and the castanet's was the only one I registered.

I recorded my listen yesterday and afterwards took Katie Derham's advice and heard the Music Matters doc, Harry's Boston Concerto. Despite wishing Tom whatsit was not so unstinting a gabbler, HBC was a nifty piece of documentary-making - simple, amiable, conversational and clear; took its time and permitted itself thoughtful pauses. Full marks.

Hearing the concerto's opening a few times (which we do in the doc), it's unarguably lovely. Hearing Birtwistle admire the Mendehlson concerto (and cough at a mention of the Brahms); hearing him hope his piece glitters; that he'll solve a modern problem of letting the violin be heard; and then coming back to hear the concerto a second time, I found it rather spectacular.

Is it uncommonly conventional for HB? I don't remember finding any other of his music so diversely magical.

[Serial_Apologist]

How did you get on, SA?

I listened again today and I take it all back. This is recognisably a concerto and Christian Tetzlaf's playing - perhaps not only his but significantly his - gave the piece glamour, I felt. Birtrwistle said he wanted the fiddle to be heard and what a performance - his music sings, rings, grazes, drawls and all sorts else, I'm sure. There are many fine moments; I love the bouncing effect of the fiddle at the start and throughout, some very friendly syncopation, the dubious growl of double basses and the ominous bite of the castanets. A second time, the dialogues were less apparant and the castanet's was the only one I registered.

I recorded my listen yesterday and afterwards took Katie Derham's advice and heard the Music Matters doc, Harry's Boston Concerto. Despite wishing Tom whatsit was not so unstinting a gabbler, HBC was a nifty piece of documentary-making - simple, amiable, conversational and clear; took its time and permitted itself thoughtful pauses. Full marks.

Hearing the concerto's opening a few times (which we do in the doc), it's unarguably lovely. Hearing Birtwistle admire the Mendehlson concerto (and cough at a mention of the Brahms); hearing him hope his piece glitters; that he'll solve a modern problem of letting the violin be heard; and then coming back to hear the concerto a second time, I found it rather spectacular.

Is it uncommonly conventional for HB? I don't remember finding any other of his music so diversely magical.

Didn't hear the Birtwistle interview, hackneyvi, but I fell straightaway for the violin concerto. For a Birtwistle piece it was pretty clear to follow I thought: the stuttering opening theme, the sudden thrilling uprush that reminded me somehow of Schoenberg's similar effect in his "Kol Nidre" after the cantor shouts the words, "Let there be LIGHT!" or somesuch, the langorous passages and moments of utter stillness, mysterious as only atonality can attain. I haven't liked all the Birtwistle I've heard - his nature seems one of perpetual conflict rather than an overarching order - and dissonance taken to the nth degree of abideability yields diminishing returns. But one thing I will say: the more I hear of his stuff, even at its most complex the ideas stand out; and for me B is a master orchestrator. Some on hear will say a read through the score will reveal interconnections that would make for a more authoritative assessment, but I prefer (like you) letting ears be the judge, even if better familiarisation takes 5, 10, 20 hearings.

The Bridge was pleasant, too, in a sub-R Straussian kind of way.

S-A

PS - did you see my message to you on the "New South London Venue" thread on the jass bored?

[jayne lee wilson]

To S-A and Hackneyvi, do you know the Trumpet Concerto, Endless Parade? Has a more "harmonious" quality as per vn.cto. Case of "if you liked this, try that"... the recent NMC CD of Night's Black Bird (great title!) is one of the very best, but tending back toward conflict and deferred resolution again. Still recommend it to you with 3 stars though!

Didn't hear the Birtwistle interview, hackneyvi, but I fell straightaway for the violin concerto. For a Birtwistle piece it was pretty clear to follow I thought: the stuttering opening theme, the sudden thrilling uprush that reminded me somehow of Schoenberg's similar effect in his "Kol Nidre" after the cantor shouts the words, "Let there be LIGHT!" or somesuch, the langorous passages and moments of utter stillness, mysterious as only atonality can attain. I haven't liked all the Birtwistle I've heard - his nature seems one of perpetual conflict rather than an overarching order - and dissonance taken to the nth degree of abideability yields diminishing returns. But one thing I will say: the more I hear of his stuff, even at its most complex the ideas stand out; and for me B is a master orchestrator. Some on hear will say a read through the score will reveal interconnections that would make for a more authoritative assessment, but I prefer (like you) letting ears be the judge, even if better familiarisation takes 5, 10, 20 hearings.

The Bridge was pleasant, too, in a sub-R Straussian kind of way.

S-A

PS - did you see my message to you on the "New South London Venue" thread on the jass bored?

[hackneyvi]

Didn't hear the Birtwistle interview, hackneyvi, but I fell straightaway for the violin concerto. For a Birtwistle piece it was pretty clear to follow I thought: the stuttering opening theme ... - his nature seems one of perpetual conflict rather than an overarching order - ... one thing I will say: the more I hear of his stuff, even at its most complex the ideas stand out; and for me B is a master orchestrator. Some on hear will say a read through the score will reveal interconnections that would make for a more authoritative assessment, but I prefer (like you) letting ears be the judge, even if better familiarisation takes 5, 10, 20 hearings.

PS - did you see my message to you on the "New South London Venue" thread on the jass bored?

Apologies but I'd missed the Amersham Arms thread, SA. Ta - see my reply.

Re HB - what really strikes me about the concerto is how great it sounded in the Albert Hall. Do the BBC engineers aim to capture the sound of the music or the sound of the music in the space? That Swiss 'Eroica' the other week seemed to be for a completely different acoustic, seemed too small for the hall, but the HB seemed both superbly full and superbly spacious.

A master orchestrator? I couldn't have swallowed that 24 hours ago. I haven't seen HB's merits at all until now and have deduced the person from the music - martial, complicated, unfriendly, abstruse; off-putting. The person on the doc was - genial, careful, complimentary, pragmatic. I was able to imbue the music with the humanity of the person; humanity was what the music had always lacked. Maybe this will prove to be the way in? I'd like to hope so.

[hackneyvi]

To S-A and Hackneyvi, do you know the Trumpet Concerto, Endless Parade? Has a more "harmonious" quality as per vn.cto. Case of "if you liked this, try that"... the recent NMC CD of Night's Black Bird (great title!) is one of the very best, but tending back toward conflict and deferred resolution again. Still recommend it to you with 3 stars though!

Synchonicity, Jayne!! I was just about to ask for advice on HB pieces. Thanks for the recommendations.

[Chris Newman]

I'm glad you liked it, Phil. I did too. Some of Harry's music has always been approachable and some quite (very) challenging. I did not take to him at first until friends talked me into taking part in a performance of Bow Down a work he originally wrote for the National Theatre when he was Trevor Nunn's Director of Music. It was great fun to sing and dance to.

[bluestateprommer]

To S-A and Hackneyvi, do you know the Trumpet Concerto, Endless Parade? Has a more "harmonious" quality as per vn.cto.

Absolutely agree with the recommendation of Endless Parade, re: other Birtwistle works to try out for the relative newbie. I had the Hakan Hardenberger CD of this, PMD's trumpet concerto as well as the Michael Blake Watkins concerto, and to my belated shame I traded it in years ago.

I was also quite surprised as how relatively "easy" and ear-tickling HB's Violin Concerto was to listen to, compared to other works I've heard on CD (e.g. Gawain). It could perhaps have been a few minutes shorter, but HB did manage his self-appointed challenge of trying to make the violin heard with the ensembles very well. The Bridge was OK, done reasonably well, likewise The Planets. I too got annoyed with the applause after each movement, but upon further thought, I came up with this rationalization. Both the Bridge and Birtwistle works are single movement compositions. The newbies in the audience, if we want to presume that they were responsible for the inter-Planet-ary applause, may not have known better. Perhaps various hand signals from the regular Prommers might have conveyed the message about applause better.