R3 in Concert one-stop shop

[LMcD]

As a long-time admirer of the works of Jean Sibelius, can I just say what a pleasure it was to hear the whole of the 1st movement of his 3rd symphony without a single trailer inserted at any point. I hope that the remaining movements are treated just as respectfully whenever they're broadcast.

[vinteuil]

As a long-time admirer of the works of Jean Sibelius, can I just say what a pleasure it was to hear the whole of the 1st movement of his 3rd symphony without a single trailer inserted at any point. I hope that the remaining movements are treated just as respectfully whenever they're broadcast.

When Rossini was once told that they were performing act two of William Tell at l'Opéra in Paris, he apparently replied, mock incredulously, "What? All of it?" '

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[LMcD]

When Rossini was once told that they were performing act two of William Tell at l'Opéra in Paris, he apparently replied, mock incredulously, "What? All of it?" '

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[Roger Webb]

Yes, in those days the BBC did have something of a magic-money tree. Since then it has been considerably depleted, with the aggravating factor that Radio 3 has plummeted down the BBC's financial pecking order. By changing their published method of advertising relative costs, the BBC makes Radio 3 still look very expensive whereas Radio 1 and 2 are extraoordinarily cheap - even though they gobble up more of the BBC budget.

Do they measure it per capita, I wonder. If so the money spent on me personally seems both extravagantly lavish and mean....depending on what I'm listening to!

[french frank]

Do they measure it per capita, I wonder. If so the money spent on me personally seems both extravagantly lavish and mean....depending on what I'm listening to!

Yes, they measure it by how much is spent per listener; also the cost per listener hour. This makes R3 with its small listenership and low listening hours (because its output is so varied) expensive, although of the five network radio stations - Rs 1-5 Live R3 gets the least number of millions, R1 and R2 needing a lot to pay for presenters' salaries.

Just checked the accounts for 2022-23 (p152). They don't seem to give as much detail as they used to, but these are the figures for total cost and cost per listener hour:

R1 £39m 2p
R2 £50m 1p
R3 £34m 5p
R4 £88m 1p
R5 £50m 3p

[Roger Webb]

Yes, they measure it by how much is spent per listener; also the cost per listener hour. This makes R3 with its small listenership and low listening hours (because its output is so varied) expensive, although of the five network radio stations - Rs 1-5 Live R3 gets the least number of millions, R1 and R2 needing a lots to pay for presenters' salaries.

Just checked the accounts for 2022-23 (p152). They don't seem to give as much detail as they used to, but these are the figures for total cost and cost per listener hour:

R1 £39m 2p
R2 £50m 1p
R3 £34m 5p
R4 £88m 1p
R5 £50m 3p

Well, looking at the figures a typical bean-counter would say they've at least to halve the 34m or double the listener hours to arrive at an average spend per capita. A rational human being might conclude that quality programmes (we'll leave that supposition dangling...to be discussed) might just cost a bit more!

[pastoralguy]

R1 and R2 needing a lot to pay for presenters salaries 3p

You mean Andrew McGregor doesn’t earn the same as Zoe Ball?!

[Ein Heldenleben]

Yes, they measure it by how much is spent per listener; also the cost per listener hour. This makes R3 with its small listenership and low listening hours (because its output is so varied) expensive, although of the five network radio stations - Rs 1-5 Live R3 gets the least number of millions, R1 and R2 needing a lot to pay for presenters' salaries.

Just checked the accounts for 2022-23 (p152). They don't seem to give as much detail as they used to, but these are the figures for total cost and cost per listener hour:

R1 £39m 2p
R2 £50m 1p
R3 £34m 5p
R4 £88m 1p
R5 £50m 3p

You have to be very careful with those figures as they don’t always include central overheads. The thing is network radio is as cheap as chips. A network TV doc can easily work out at 25 PENCE per viewer hour : say 1,000,000 viewers at a cost (excluding channel overheads ) of £250,000 per hour. 1 million is fast becoming a good 21.00 audience on BBC 2 or C4 whereas 20 years ago it would have been an unmitigated disaster.
Try costing out Match of The Day ( those highlights are pricey ) or a drama that costs a mill per hour and then flops. Or S4C programmes or BBC Alba - even though the budgets are small the audiences are often borderline unmeasurable. I reckon there are TV programmes going out for around a pound per viewer hour all the time.

[french frank]

You have to be very careful with those figures as they don’t always include central overheads.

There used to be a breakdown of what that £34m for R3 was made up of, especially what was spent on content. There was also the spend per genre (but no one was interested in that so they gave up publishing it )

The thing is network radio is as cheap as chips.

Much of it is, but as you have pointed out, even a play on R3 is going to be expensive compared with a CD sequence programme (with an R3 presenter!). Just as for R2 a programme presented by Zoe Ball is going to be 'more expensive' than one with some lesser light. Our point was that it didn't matter if a Drama on 3 only attracted 20,000 people if it was a classic play which would otherwise be unavailable for an audience to enjoy, possibly in their entire lifetime (such as next week's play by Lope which I've just posted about). How do you put a 'public value' on that? How do you factor in how many provincial theatres would be needed to take an audience of 20,000?

[Ein Heldenleben]

There used to be a breakdown of what that £34m for R3 was made up of, especially what was spent on content. There was also the spend per genre (but no one was interested in that so they gave up publishing it )



Much of it is, but as you have pointed out, even a play on R3 is going to be expensive compared with a CD sequence programme (with an R3 presenter!). Just as for R2 a programme presented by Zoe Ball is going to be 'more expensive' than one with some lesser light. Our point was that it didn't matter if a Drama on 3 only attracted 20,000 people if it was a classic play which would otherwise be unavailable for an audience to enjoy, possibly in their entire lifetime (such as next week's play by Lope which I've just posted about). How do you put a 'public value' on that? How do you factor in how many provincial theatres would be needed to take an audience of 20,000?

all good arguments. You might well find that a Sunday Drama when you add on iPlayer hits does considerably better than 20,000 - but even that is the equivalent of 11 full Olivier theatre audiences. And the Olivier subsidy will be vastly more than 5p per seat hour if there is such a metric. Probably £5 to £10 per seat I would estimate.

[french frank]

You might well find that a Sunday Drama when you add on iPlayer hits does considerably better than 20,000 - but even that is the equivalent of 11 full Olivier theatre audiences.

None of which would actually be putting on a peformance of the play in question anyway! It's a case of the cost of everything and the value of nothing as that Mr Wilde said.

[Roger Webb]

It was some while ago that the message was conveyed to R3 management that 'people' didn't really like the concert interval taken up with bits of music, especially with little connection to the main concert works. But, as usual ...

Any one like the actual concert taken up with bits, I'm listening opened- mouthed to this evening's 'concert'...BTW it's called Mozart: The mixtape.!!!

Played so far, the first three movements of the Hafner symphony - apparently the last movt. Is to played at the end of the concert! Each of the three movts. so far have been interrupted by Petroc interviewing somebody!

Most peculiar hand-over from 7 o'clock mixtape too, as if they had only gone over to Croydon just in time, missing out Petroc's intro. The orchestra was just starting...lucky those adverts didn't overrun!

What a mess.

[french frank]

"Mozart The Mixtape is a re-creation for our own times: "Imagine this. The year is 1783 and you’re a fashionable Viennese aristocrat, so of course you’ve heard of Mozart, the 27-year-old genius lighting up music halls across the continent. He might even be your piano teacher. Someone tells you that he’s got something new planned, so you show up to the palace theatre in your newest ‘fit. As the concert starts, you note that the Emperor is in attendance – a good sign. If you could, you’d livetweet the whole thing. It features many of Mozart’s greatest hits including the “Haffner” Symphony and Piano Concertos No.13 and No.5."

So which VIP is "in attendance" at this performance? The Culture Secretary?

[Roger Webb]

"Mozart The Mixtape is a re-creation for our own times: "Imagine this. The year is 1783 and you’re a fashionable Viennese aristocrat, so of course you’ve heard of Mozart, the 27-year-old genius lighting up music halls across the continent. He might even be your piano teacher. Someone tells you that he’s got something new planned, so you show up to the palace theatre in your newest ‘fit. As the concert starts, you note that the Emperor is in attendance – a good sign. If you could, you’d livetweet the whole thing. It features many of Mozart’s greatest hits including the “Haffner” Symphony and Piano Concertos No.13 and No.5."

So which VIP is "in attendance" at this performance? The Culture Secretary?

Yes, that's the blurb that got me interested too! But only because I look every night to see what the evening concert offers - to see if it's worth the switch-over from France Musique or WDR 3, whose concerts handily start at 7 o'clock. Imogene Cooper still sounds good though - I remember her with the BSO and Harry Blech, oh, 45 years ago...what would he ( the founder of The London Mozart Players) have thought of this sort of thing? Probably have 'live-tweeted' the whole thing.

[LMcD]

Any one like the actual concert taken up with bits, I'm listening opened- mouthed to this evening's 'concert'...BTW it's called Mozart: The mixtape.!!!

Played so far, the first three movements of the Hafner symphony - apparently the last movt. Is to played at the end of the concert! Each of the three movts. so far have been interrupted by Petroc interviewing somebody!

Most peculiar hand-over from 7 o'clock mixtape too, as if they had only gone over to Croydon just in time, missing out Petroc's intro. The orchestra was just starting...lucky those adverts didn't overrun!

What a mess.

The handover wasn't live - the concert was recorded a few days ago.