BaLs: Where do we go from here?

[Pulcinella]

You may have seen french frank’s recent Announcements thread ‘Of mods and rockers’ (https://www.for3.org/forums/forum/ra...ds-and-rockers), in which she said that, at least for a short while, I’ll be taking over launching new BaL threads while Alpie takes a well-deserved break.

Coincidentally, I had been on the verge of writing to him to suggest that we might reconsider how we present the material, which can take a lot of time and effort to produce. So, I’m making some suggestions here for wider consideration.

It seems that the programme has lost much of its former appeal, for two main reasons: the two-handed approach and the limited number of recordings considered (not announced in advance). Much of the post-broadcast comment is now of the form:
Well, that was obvious from the start.
No surprise: reviewer X always favours conductor Y.
Why was no HIPP version considered?
Not another download-only choice!

That said, the discussion beforehand is often very interesting, with lots of light shed on different versions, and contributors have said that they have been encouraged to reinvestigate their own collections and sample new recordings with great enthusiasm. We have much more of an ‘Interpretations on record’-type discussion, a programme many of us wish would return.

Who knows what the plans are for BaL in its new time slot: what will happen during the Proms (we can always launch our own new “Summer BaL” threads) and once it returns after if indeed there is the traditional break?

If there’s general approval, I’ll continue in the short term by launching a new thread as the R3 schedule announces the piece being considered, and I’ll copy over their blurb (so we know who’s doing the comparison). Then I’ll give a link to the work on the Presto site, which is what I’d use to get more detailed information. If the number of recordings is manageable, and the information doesn’t have to be that detailed (typically like the Handel Op 6 and War Requiem threads just launched rather than the Madam Butterfly one), I’ll have a stab at compiling a list to post. For works with many more available versions, an option would be to use the filters on the Presto site to provide separate links for CD and download options (there would be overlaps), which might make browsing more attractive for some.

Please let us have your thoughts.

And once more, huge thanks to Alpie for all he’s done for us in the past.

[duncan]

I won't blame anyone for not producing the lists that EA did.

However, as you say, announcing the BaL somewhat in advance has often generated discussion from which I've learned at least as much from as from the real thing. I very much enjoyed the Savall Schubert 9th for example.

[Gargoyle]

Can someone tell me what new slot is proposed for BaL/Record Review?

[french frank]

Record Review, Saturday afternoon, 2pm-4pm, replacing Inside Music.

Or did you mean what's taking the RR slot? Three hours of Tom Service in new programme called Saturday Morning with Tom Service.

[Retune]

I remain a fan of the programme after the switch to the doubled headed format, though I don't suppose it's clear exactly what we'll be getting in the brutally truncated RR afternoon slot. I've always been grateful for the lists compiled for these threads - it's nice to do a bit of exploring if I have time before the programme, and it's always useful to have the list in front of me when I haven't managed to parse their pronunciation of some musician's name I'm not familiar with! The discussion here is always interesting, especially when it highlights some excellent version that has been passed over in the broadcast. But I don't imagine I'll listen to it live quite so often in the new slot, and perhaps not the same day.

[oddoneout]

Record Review, Saturday afternoon, 2pm-4pm, replacing Inside Music.

Or did you mean what's taking the RR slot? Three hours of Tom Service in new programme called Saturday Morning with Tom Service.

Which is 45 minutes shorter than the slot it used to have. Does anyone have any information as to whether it will even include BaL? The comments under the Jackson piece included several voicing that concern. The Media Centre piece was updated on 4 March but doesn't include more detail.

[oliver sudden]

For me the great thing about discussing the programme here (and I generally don’t manage to listen to it ‘live’ since that’s rarely compatible with the family situation) is hearing fellow boarders’ tips, whether that’s in the shape of unknown recordings (which might not be eligible for the programme anyway—we’ve just discussed the subject of BBCMM CDs, and there are plenty of gems in YouTube that also would never make it to an official list) or of our (perhaps, indeed hopefully, heretical) thoughts on reference recordings.

I very much appreciate and admire the enormous lists but I wouldn’t want anyone to feel in any way obliged to compile them just for message board purposes!

[Belgrove]

As one who has very occasionally attempted to compile a list for Our Summer BAL, I can attest to the considerable effort it requires. Those who take on that burden deserve our heartfelt thanks. But those lists become out of date as soon as an entry is deleted or a new version is issued. Perhaps a less onerous way forward is for the list of the few recordings discussed in the programme to be edited into the head of the thread once it has been broadcast? Contributors to the thread may, of course, continue to advocate their favoured issues prior to or after the broadcast, and independent of those recordings discussed.

[Pulcinella]

As one who has very occasionally attempted to compile a list for Our Summer BAL, I can attest to the considerable effort it requires. Those who take on that burden deserve our heartfelt thanks. But those lists become out of date as soon as an entry is deleted or a new version is issued. Perhaps a less onerous way forward is for the list of the few recordings discussed in the programme to be edited into the head of the thread once it has been broadcast? Contributors to the thread may, of course, continue to advocate their favoured issues prior to or after the broadcast, and independent of those recordings discussed.

Thanks for this comment, Belgrove.
It's quite an ask though for someone to keep track of what is mentioned during the programme.
I certainly don't listen to all editions and would be hard pressed to follow through this suggestion, admirable though it is.

At least a Presto link should stay 'live' and useful to the extent of showing what's available at the time it's clicked on!

Chamber works with various players not necessarily performing as a named ensemble are a particular challenge to list: I've never envied Alpie that task! With a piano quartet/quintet, for example, how do you order the players, for one thing? It can take quite some detective work to see who's playing what!

[french frank]

It's quite an ask though for someone to keep track of what is mentioned during the programme.
I certainly don't listen to all editions and would be hard pressed to follow through this suggestion, admirable though it is.

It could, though, become more of a communal effort with anyone who did listen attentively noting down (and then posting) which versions were mentioned.

At least a Presto link should stay 'live' and useful to the extent of showing what's available at the time it's clicked on!

Yes to that. I will apologise if I'm way off beam, but I get the feeling that the new controller was never an avid R3 listener and that that made him interesting to BBC non-R3 executives; that and his experience with Classic FM.

[Pulcinella]

It could, though, become more of a communal effort with anyone who did listen attentively noting down (and then posting) which versions were mentioned.

Yes to that. I will apologise if I'm way off beam, but I get the feeling that the new controller was never an avid R3 listener and that that made him interesting to BBC non-R3 executives; that and his experience with Classic FM.

And yes to that!

[Ein Heldenleben]

I would be happy to list the played excerpts of Madama Butterfly this weekend as I will definitely be listening if that would be helpful. Apologies in advance for any inaccuracies as , although I used to get paid to do something like this professionally it’s actually surprisingly hard to do and also time consuming. There even used to be a rogues’ league table of those programmes that had failed to do it. I guess a lot of it is automated now.
I won’t list the cast details for every track - just the main singers , band and conductor


I see from the BAL MB thread there are already some comprehensive lists.Thanks for doing those - much appreciated,

The irony is that had BAL stayed at 10.30 I reckon I could have track listed virtually every week. But it conflicts with other things in the afternoon sadly . I’ve also managed to get some work which sometime in March 2025 will involve me doing exactly this process (plus durations and copyright details ) so it would be good to get up to speed ! Just don’t ask me to do diversity details (both perceived and actual ) as (TV) broadcasters now expect . That really takes a long time . Just don’t fancy asking Opera stars their gender.

[Retune]

Which is 45 minutes shorter than the slot it used to have. Does anyone have any information as to whether it will even include BaL? The comments under the Jackson piece included several voicing that concern. The Media Centre piece was updated on 4 March but doesn't include more detail.

I wouldn't put it past them to kill it off. A loss whatever they cut, of course; they can't be covering more than a quarter of new releases as it is. Unless of course the plan is to keep BaL in the morning, giving the guest reviewer the challenge of getting a word in edgeways with Tom Service...

[Pulcinella]

I would be happy to list the played excerpts of Madama Butterfly this weekend as I will definitely be listening if that would be helpful. Apologies in advance for any inaccuracies as , although I used to get paid to do something like this professionally it’s actually surprisingly hard to do and also time consuming. There even used to be a rogues’ league table of those programmes that had failed to do it. I guess a lot of it is automated now.
I won’t list the cast details for every track - just the main singers , band and conductor


I see from the BAL MB thread there are already some comprehensive lists.Thanks for doing those - much appreciated,

The irony is that had BAL stayed at 10.30 I reckon I could have track listed virtually every week. But it conflicts with other things in the afternoon sadly . I’ve also managed to get some work which sometime in March 2025 will involve me doing exactly this process (plus durations and copyright details ) so it would be good to get up to speed ! Just don’t ask me to do diversity details (both perceived and actual ) as (TV) broadcasters now expect . That really takes a long time . Just don’t fancy asking Opera stars their gender.

Thank you.
Much appreciated.
I don't even think you'll need that much detail for MB: just the conductor, unless there are more than one recordings by that conductor? Even then, just Conductor/Orchestra should suffice.
Of course you could add detail if you wanted: wobbly Butterfy in X, stentorian Pinkerton in Y.

In this particular instance, Nigel might be kind enough to list them after the event; he's already given us a pointer!

Good luck with your new work: it sounds quite exacting!

[Ein Heldenleben]

Thank you.
Much appreciated.
I don't even think you'll need that much detail for MB: just the conductor, unless there are more than one recordings by that conductor? Even then, just Conductor/Orchestra should suffice.
Of course you could add detail if you wanted: wobbly Butterfy in X, stentorian Pinkerton in Y.

In this particular instance, Nigel might be kind enough to list them after the event; he's already given us a pointer!

Good luck with your new work: it sounds quite exacting!

Thanks Pulchie . I’ll try and keep it editorially neutral. Unlike one video tape editor who in a technical report on a TV programme I made logged
“dodgy wig at 17’ 23”