BaL 13.04.24 - Brahms: Symphony 3

[richardfinegold]

Is anyone else a particular fan of the 1949 Furtwängler? My tastes in most things are very much in the historically informed / hysterically misinformed direction but I must admit I spin that one probably twice as often as all the others on my shelves put together…

(And that one has the exposition repeat, so, win.)

I played the Furtwangler set constantly when it was released on Music and Arts a few decades back but not much since. I like your Historically informed/Hysterically Misinformed bit.

[Cockney Sparrow]

Not forgotten here either.
Boult's EMI Brahms 2 was my constant listening when I studied it for A level (I know Alpie did the same exam; I wonder which recording he had).
Bought the set on CD (three separate HVM issues); I see the recordings are still available (says licensed from EMI):

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Brahms-Symphonies-Johannes/dp/B000026BS8/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8

That set linked to - I think anyone thinking of buying needs to check. I had it, but I think there is a problem with the transfer (or something). IIRC the symphonies are in one of the two Warner Big ( OK -not as big as some) Boult boxes. I bought the vinyl discs as the symphonies , Alto Rhapsody, etc, I listened to in my later teen years.

[Pulcinella]

That set linked to - I think anyone thinking of buying needs to check. I had it, but I think there is a problem with the transfer (or something). IIRC the symphonies are in one of the two Warner Big ( OK -not as big as some) Boult boxes. I bought the vinyl discs as the symphonies , Alto Rhapsody, etc, I listened to in my later teen years.

Thanks for the alert.
This EMI Studio release which contains Symphony 3 should be a better bet then: a few cheap s/h copies around.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Brahms-Symphony-Academic-Festival-Overture/dp/B00000DOI8/ref=sr_1_3?crid=1D1D70P61O22V&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.js8J_Kjb-nwLKXqQP_CEm1z43NMhubEfZ4jcj-ng27zw2RNTBKpz2bj11ImKP9HWlg7d7a_ogWcHq7b8X--fks1z5i5fg7tYeV_Ydmkob8ttycx8KfdC1dTYJKkGg8Lzk5UBEUUSYFCPZUPziMaCMYO45jommgGXQsRmbezWUyOdyCoR4faODtHSYHr40y_GwqdSsTmBh2qKEKCNMz8V0Us1Kh_PA3eX5CaTYWI_Qj0.CTbzFeAd45sNaXX_bCiIlFlXBwRiyenz2qJDj-6FD2k&dib_tag=se&keywords=Brahms+boult+symphony+3&qid=1711804676&sprefix=brahms+boult+symphony+3%2Caps%2C110&sr=8-3

[vinteuil]

.
... the Boult Brahms also to be found here :

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0084HGZKA/

.

[Wolfram]

Is anyone else a particular fan of the 1949 Furtwängler? My tastes in most things are very much in the historically informed / hysterically misinformed direction but I must admit I spin that one probably twice as often as all the others on my shelves put together…

(And that one has the exposition repeat, so, win.)

I played the 1949 Furtwangler just a few days ago and couldn’t stand the audience coughing. I have his 1954 DG recording in one of those anniversary boxes, but confess I’ve never listened to it. Something I plan to put right before the BaL airs.

[Wolfram]

I have just finished listening to Manze in this symphony and have very mixed feelings about it. I spent most of the symphony marvelling at the wonderful clarity he achieves; woodwind and brass phrases superbly balanced against the strings. And yet after 35 minutes plus of open textures, at the very end of the last movement the descending string phrase - Brahms’ take on Wagner’s ‘downfall of the Gods’ motif - is almost inaudible, covered by the closing wind cords. Something I noticed on a couple of other recordings as well. I think that would rule it out for me. Such a disappointment.

Of the others I have listened to recently, the ones that struck me most were Walter (NYPO) swift and full of fire and energy - I’ve yet to listen to the Columbia version, and Karajan (1964), likewise, and Klemperer, clear, open and unfussy. I know that the Abbado is a classic, but this time around, despite sumptuous playing, I found it a little cosy, a touch of Biedermeier hangover maybe. I didn’t get the sense of those brief shadows occasionally passing over the music, something you can certainly hear from Walter. I don’t know; on another day I might hear it differently.

Very much looking forward to this one. Probably will have to catch up on BBC Sounds now that it’s moving to the afternoon. Like others I’m not greatly enamoured by the change of slot, but it won’t deter me from listening, even if it will have to be on catch up now. The biggest issue for me is the device I have to listen to internet streamed BBC Sounds is very much inferior to my hi-fi system FM tuner, so I won’t benefit from high quality BBC stereo when listening to the clips. Still it’s good news for the reviewers I expect: they won’t have to get out of bed so early on Saturday morning now.

[Barbirollians]

.
... the Boult Brahms also to be found here :

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0084HGZKA/

.

A great set I remember it receiving a very warm welcome on here when it came out. Glad to hear others share my love of Boult in Brahms.

[richardfinegold]

I have just finished listening to Manze in this symphony and have very mixed feelings about it. I spent most of the symphony marvelling at the wonderful clarity he achieves; woodwind and brass phrases superbly balanced against the strings. And yet after 35 minutes plus of open textures, at the very end of the last movement the descending string phrase - Brahms’ take on Wagner’s ‘downfall of the Gods’ motif - is almost inaudible, covered by the closing wind cords. Something I noticed on a couple of other recordings as well. I think that would rule it out for me. Such a disappointment.

Of the others I have listened to recently, the ones that struck me most were Walter (NYPO) swift and full of fire and energy - I’ve yet to listen to the Columbia version, and Karajan (1964), likewise, and Klemperer, clear, open and unfussy. I know that the Abbado is a classic, but this time around, despite sumptuous playing, I found it a little cosy, a touch of Biedermeier hangover maybe. I didn’t get the sense of those brief shadows occasionally passing over the music, something you can certainly hear from Walter. I don’t know; on another day I might hear it differently.

Very much looking forward to this one. Probably will have to catch up on BBC Sounds now that it’s moving to the afternoon. Like others I’m not greatly enamoured by the change of slot, but it won’t deter me from listening, even if it will have to be on catch up now. The biggest issue for me is the device I have to listen to internet streamed BBC Sounds is very much inferior to my hi-fi system FM tuner, so I won’t benefit from high quality BBC stereo when listening to the clips. Still it’s good news for the reviewers I expect: they won’t have to get out of bed so early on Saturday morning now.

I had written a longer post on the Manze which somehow disappeared in the ether, then replaced it with with the one that is here. In my earlier I started that the ending of the 3rd was a letdown from what had preceded it, and I thank you, Wolfram for identifying the reason why.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Is anyone else a particular fan of the 1949 Furtwängler? My tastes in most things are very much in the historically informed / hysterically misinformed direction but I must admit I spin that one probably twice as often as all the others on my shelves put together…

(And that one has the exposition repeat, so, win.)

Furtwängler’s Brahms1 was the BaL library choice not long ago.

[silvestrione]

Furtwängler’s Brahms1 was the BaL library choice not long ago.

With a comment something like 'it was the best performance ever and likely to remain so'! Or 'unlikely ever to be bettered', or similar.
I feel the same way about that 1949 Brahms 3. I'm afraid I gave the Abbado to Oxfam, finding it too 'sumptuous' for me.

[richardfinegold]

With a comment something like 'it was the best performance ever and likely to remain so'! Or 'unlikely ever to be bettered', or similar.
I feel the same way about that 1949 Brahms 3. I'm afraid I gave the Abbado to Oxfam, finding it too 'sumptuous' for me.

I’ve been a bit puzzled by the Abbado love in this thread. Both he and Haitink, 2 conductors that I otherwise esteem, produced Brahms Symphony recordings that were to well upholstered, like drawing rooms in Berlin in the Wilhelmina era.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

With a comment something like 'it was the best performance ever and likely to remain so'! ….
I feel the same way about that 1949 Brahms 3.

I haven’t heard WF’s 1949 Brahms 3, but I do have the Berlin 1954 version, which is very fine.

[Barbirollians]

I haven’t heard WF’s 1949 Brahms 3, but I do have the Berlin 1954 version, which is very fine.

Agreed - both are very fine but I think I prefer the 1954 as it was the version I got to know first.

[Barbirollians]

I’ve been a bit puzzled by the Abbado love in this thread. Both he and Haitink, 2 conductors that I otherwise esteem, produced Brahms Symphony recordings that were to well upholstered, like drawing rooms in Berlin in the Wilhelmina era.

Not how I hear the Abbado Richard - I think its quite taut and driven . Nowhere near as well upholstered as HVK's BPO recordings.

[Darloboy]

The Abbado is an exceptionally fine taut performance of the Third Symphony. I see not only did it win the Gramophone Collection but was also the winner when last in BAL in 2008.Listening to the finale again it’s damn exciting just as a whole my heart warms more to the Bruno Walter.

Yes, it was Robert Philips's first choice in October 2008. Prior to that, the 3rd hadn't been covered individually by BaL since 1972. However, BaL covered the complete symphonies in 1980 and 1991.

In February 1980 Richard Osborne chose Klemperer as first choice for the 3rd symphony (Boult was the first choice for a complete cycle).

In February 1991, Alan Sanders and Stephen Johnson chose Bruno Walter as first choice for the 3rd, with Abbado and Furtwängler 1954 as runners-up. Wand with the North German Radio SO was first choice for a complete set with Toscanini also recommended.