Audio editing software for a beginner

[Lordgeous]

For stereo editing and professional CD mastering Ive used DSP Quattro for years. Its simple pop and crackle filter cleans up 78s and vinyl pretty well too (though I sometimes use the Waves plugins too). Anyone else using Quattro?

[Bryn]

For stereo editing and professional CD mastering Ive used DSP Quattro for years. Its simple pop and crackle filter cleans up 78s and vinyl pretty well too (though I sometimes use the Waves plugins too). Anyone else using Quattro?

I went looking for DSP Quattro and found this:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=dsp+quattro&_sacat=0&LH_TitleDesc=0&matchtype=p&adgroupid=1307319511699787&geo_id=&MT_ID=&cmpgn=352759002&crlp=_&keyword=dsp+quatro&rlsatarget=kwd-81707571630874%3Aloc-188&abcId=&loc=188&sitelnk=&norover=1&mkrid=710-55006-18975-0&network=s&msclkid=6b322f79a3b110f2df007182d2da560e&poi=&mkevt=1&adpos=&mktype=&_odkw=dsp+quatro&device=c&mkcid=2

I did then find the audio editor. I'll stick with Sound Forge Pro 13 and Reaper but £98.39 including VAT does not look too bad, given the features it offers.

[Dave2002]

I went looking for DSP Quattro and found this:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=dsp+quattro&_sacat=0&LH_TitleDesc=0&matchtype=p&adgroupid=1307319511699787&geo_id=&MT_ID=&cmpgn=352759002&crlp=_&keyword=dsp+quatro&rlsatarget=kwd-81707571630874%3Aloc-188&abcId=&loc=188&sitelnk=&norover=1&mkrid=710-55006-18975-0&network=s&msclkid=6b322f79a3b110f2df007182d2da560e&poi=&mkevt=1&adpos=&mktype=&_odkw=dsp+quatro&device=c&mkcid=2

I did then find the audio editor. I'll stick with Sound Forge Pro 13 and Reaper but £98.39 including VAT does not look too bad, given the features it offers.

Quattro does indeed look good, though it is a MacOS only product, so less use for the OP of this thread.

I did find this about ocenaudio, also mentioned previously. https://www.techradar.com/reviews/ocenaudio

Seems as though it might be worth adding to one's armoury of tools. There are different versions for different releases of major OSs - https://www.ocenaudio.com/download

[MrGongGong]

Oceanaudio is supposed to be quite good
BUT, I do think that it's a bit of a waste of time looking endlessly for new things that do more or less the same as others
a bit like reverb plugins

I'm now using Reaper because i've been doing some 8 channel stuff and that isn't simple with the things I used before BUT I could waste endless amounts of time looking and more and more free editors that do the same thing

Sure, have something that works in a different way (Spear, for example) but endless varations on the same thing ? naaaah

[Dave2002]

Oceanaudio is supposed to be quite good
BUT, I do think that it's a bit of a waste of time looking endlessly for new things that do more or less the same as others
a bit like reverb plugins

I'm now using Reaper because i've been doing some 8 channel stuff and that isn't simple with the things I used before BUT I could waste endless amounts of time looking and more and more free editors that do the same thing

Sure, have something that works in a different way (Spear, for example) but endless varations on the same thing ? naaaah

Just wasted ten minutes typing here - which got lost. Here goes again!

I didn't waste much time on ocenaudio, other than to download it and check that it works. It may be less resource intensive than audacity, for example for working with low-res audio files such as mp3. Audacity expands the working storage considerably, even if the inputs are low sample rate, low resolution, and the output is similar. However this isn't such a big problem these days.

The one tool I noticed from this thread which looks interesting is Quattro, but it is considerably more expensive than free, so I probably won't check that out further.

Given the requirements, I'd suggest that video editors are the way to go. Many aren't too bad at audio, and under the circumstances I doubt that the audio is going to be compromised too much anyway. It will already be less than perfect if delivered via networks or other means using iPhones etc.

I would strongly recommend that each singing participant claps (say) 8 and 4 beats in before singing, as this would be easy to spot in the audio channels, and would make synchronisation much easier. Some video editors can do auto synchronisation, but not all do, and it's good to have the audio to ensure things are together.

Probably each participant will have to use headphones, though it's not absolutely necessary. A click track, or pre-recorded "sing along" track would also be helpful, and if a click track is used without headphones, it should be suppressed as soon as the singing starts, otherwise it will be painfully obvious in the recording. This can also happen unintentionally, depending on the equipment used. Headphones minimise this risk - though perhaps don't eliminate it.

If singers are tech savvy they may use DAWs to help with the recording, and there's a danger that the inbuilt output will still be active, and the sound of a click track or previous recording will come through the speakers of a laptop, and be picked up again by the microphone. However, that's too technical - and you'll notice that I've probably made that mistake since I'm aware of it!

DAWs can be useful for some performers, as they can allow multiple takes in relatively short time, so some participants might like that, if each musical section is quite short. Set the DAW up to do loop recording with a slight time extension at the end to allow for the next take, and leave things to them. That would require the use of DAWs which can do direct recording - which most of them do.

[Dave2002]

Somewhat sadly I have come to the conclusion that a lot of the free, or cheap DAW software isn't really very good, or if it is good - then it has some gotchas, such as extras to purchase, or inability to export output files, or a subscription model. Most aren't worth wasting much time on at all.

I have been tryng to get LMMS (free) to work. I have a hunch that it might work OK on a Windows machine or a Linux machine. It should also work on new MacOS systems. This is the DAW which doesn't have audio editing built in, but works co-operatively with tools such as Ocenaudio or Audacity. This seems to view audio as an afterthought - and it would appear that there are many people "out there" who think a DAW is only for working with synthesized sounds, drum machines and sequencers. It's probably OK for those people, if not the best there is. I am uncertain whether it works with virtual instrument files (such as VST) - it may, but I think it's OS and version dependent. It is Open Source, and if it can be made to work, it'll do the job. That's a big "if" though.

The other issue with LMMS is the user interface, and figuring out how to get things done. It may well work for the purpose behind this thread, but it's quite hard to figure out how. I think in the Song Editor most of the tracks should be cleared out, and then instances of Sample Tracks installed, to correspond to the audio for each of the singers participating. This is highly obvious and intuitive (NOT!). Then I think it should work, and it should be possible to adjust the relative position of each track on the timeline, and also balance the whole mix with the Mixer.

Other so called "free" DAWs also have problems. Ardour looked promising, but seems to come up with a French language interface, and doesn't work properly anyway.

Tracktion Waveform should be available in a Free (Demo?) version as well as a rather more expensive paid for version. This does seem to be fairly serious, and to my surprise will scan for installed plugins - which does indicate it may have a chance of working quite well. However, since the plugins on my machine are already associated with other DAWs which work, there's little point in my buying another which doesn't look any better than what I have already.

So after considerable head scratching, there seem to be a few options, which are as follows:

1. Try LMMS and see if it works on your machine. There's a chance it might. Then see if it will work with an external audio editor. Disregard most tutorial videos which go straight into drum beats and sequencers, but if you can find one which explains how to use audio tracks sensibly, follow that. Unfortunately some of the videos which mention audio are actually explaining how the tool can be used to configure a Sampler - which is good to know, but doesn't help for the project here.

2. Try audio editing tools directly - such as Audacity or Ocenaudio. My view is that this will be too difficult for a complex project.

3. Use Reaper. This will almost certainly do the job - and there is a trial which lasts a long while. If paid for the licence will be about £60. It may be quite hard to figure how how to make it work.

4A. For Mac users - despite objections from one member here - Garageband will do some of the work, though I agree with him that it can be a total pain because of import/export problems. Logic is much better and at around £200 - but with a multiple machine licence - it is actually quite good value. No good for PC users, though.

4B. For Windows users - there are several reasonable options. Possibly a version of Cubase is one of the best - such as Cubase Elements for about £80. As with most of these DAWs there might be limits on the number of tracks possible. Some users buy hardware, such as Midi controllers - and often these come with an entitlement to a "free" DAW, such as Protools (lite version I think) or Ableton Live. These will do the job, but then the hardware is probably going to cost at least £60 - depending on what it is. Hardware with this kind of software bundled in includes audio interfaces, Midi controllers, and Midi keyboards - at various costs.

There are more expensive software systems, if one really wants to pay more! Motu Digital Performer is one, and I'm sure there are others.

So overall I don't think there are any very easy answers for a free, or even cheap software tool for doing the audio editing.

It's still worth considering option 5, though:

5: Use a video editing tool - find one which works and stick with that. It will probably cost, but there are offers from time to time on software such as Premiere Elements, though you might have to wait until Black Friday to get a good deal.

[MrGongGong]

So overall I don't think there are any very easy answers for a free, or even cheap software tool for doing the audio editing.
.

Apart from REAPER which will do all of that (and more) and work forever without buying a licence

REAPER is what many electroacoustic composers and professional audio editors are now using in preference to Protools or Logic

[MrGongGong]

Do (did) many composers use Composers Desktop Project software? I think it was mostly the creation of Trevor Wishart. (And I assume he is the father of composer Stevie Wishart?)

Not so much these days
I don't think Trevor and Stevie are related though

CDP is still available though

https://www.composersdesktop.com/index.html

And Trevor's software is extraordinary (as is his music........but i'm a bit of a fanboy after meeting him as a teenager in the 1970's and many "encounters" since )

[MrGongGong]

It certainly looks like a great bag of tools: https://www.composersdesktop.com/cdpsystem.html



I've got Vox V somewhere (Singcircle / Gregory Rose), but also a limited edition CD including his Anna's Magic Garden (which now reminds me that he has a daughter called Anna!)

This

https://www.soundohm.com/product/encounters-in-the-republi

is one of the greatest pieces of music ever IMV

[Dave2002]

Do (did) many composers use Composers Desktop Project software? I think it was mostly the creation of Trevor Wishart. (And I assume he is the father of composer Stevie Wishart?)

This looks like clickbait for me! Are any of the tools actually useful nowadays, given that many DAWS and synthesizers can now do such a lot in real time?

[Boilk]

This looks like clickbait for me! Are any of the tools actually useful nowadays, given that many DAWS and synthesizers can now do such a lot in real time?

I had you in mind with the #25 link that lists some of the CDP tools... https://www.composersdesktop.com/cdpsystem.html

Have never used CDP myself, but have known about it since around 1989 when Wishart spoke about it at a UAE workshop weekend.

[MrGongGong]

This looks like clickbait for me! Are any of the tools actually useful nowadays, given that many DAWS and synthesizers can now do such a lot in real time?

NO it's NOT "clickbait"
and YES this is worth the effort to get into

CDP is a wonderful thing indeed

Dave, I think you seem to have a bit of a penchant for seemingly randomly searching the internet for things and then making decisions based on short engagements with them. How about expanding your creative imagination before making judgements ? Trevor would teach you much so maybe reading and UNDERSTANDING this first ?

https://monoskop.org/images/2/21/Wishart_Trevor_On_Sonic_Art.pdf

but maybe you are (like many) too lazy to bother and would rather twat about with Garageband like most folks ?

[Dave2002]

NO it's NOT "clickbait"
and YES this is worth the effort to get into

CDP is a wonderful thing indeed

Dave, I think you seem to have a bit of a penchant for seemingly randomly searching the internet for things and then making decisions based on short engagements with them. How about expanding your creative imagination before making judgements ? Trevor would teach you much so maybe reading and UNDERSTANDING this first ?

https://monoskop.org/images/2/21/Wishart_Trevor_On_Sonic_Art.pdf

but maybe you are (like many) too lazy to bother and would rather twat about with Garageband like most folks ?

I'm just moving from unconscious incompetence to conscious incompetence, and then seeing where that leads!

[Dave2002]

I had you in mind with the #25 link that lists some of the CDP tools... https://www.composersdesktop.com/cdpsystem.html

Have never used CDP myself, but have known about it since around 1989 when Wishart spoke about it at a UAE workshop weekend.

Thanks - I may investigate further, though i've got other concerns coming along now.

[Dave2002]

Sucks boo!

Wow.

So much for the naysayers! I got LMMS working with audio samples. It may still not be good enough for high quality results - BUT it does work - after a fashion.

It is, however, not completely intuitive, and it may not be good enough to actually do the job requested, but at least I can now see that it does do something.

The way to do it is to open up the Song Editor. Keep at least one copy of Sample track. Other tracks, such as the TripleOscillator, Beat/Bassline0 and Automation can be deleted at this stage, though can be revisited later - something for the curious to explore. Possibly more copies of Sample track might be needed - but that's not too difficult to arrange.

Then - this is where the audio comes in - Double Click on one of the rectangular blocks in the Sample track box, and a file select box will appear. Choose a suitable audio file - typically a .wav and input that. The audio pattern will then be shown in green along the line.

Each participant in the original production should have his/her own audio file - ideally converted to .wav Then set up a sample track for each one.

Editing each line may still require the use of external editors, so would be really rather clunky. It should be possible to get a mix of the tracks imported, and then export the result.

I'm not sure yet if the timing can be made precise enough to really do this job, but it is completely free.

I just couldn't believe this wouldn't work, and since I installed an earlier version of LMMS (1.1.3) yesterday on one of my older machines I couldn't resist having one more attempt at getting this to work today. It should work in Linux and in Windows, and probably a newer version would run, and might be better.

I don't give up just because some people think I should. Maybe I should join the "madness" thread!

PS: This link does give more information, though I think some experimentation is still needed to figure out exactly what does what - https://lmms.io/wiki/index.php?title...g_with_Samples