Audio editing software for a beginner

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    #31
    Why not just use Audacity - after all?

    While finding that LMMS could do some of the job required I discovered some problems. Maybe I'll come back to these later. One problem is not being able to get very precise timing on samples, though possibly that issue has been addressed in more recent version of LMMS. Another is trimming each track - but I haven't used the latest version.

    It is possible to get quite good results with LMMS - though perhaps not for the kind or music or situation envisaged here.
    Here is a list of project outputs from 2018 - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...Ljg/edit#gid=0
    and here is one of the results (number 3 in the list) https://soundcloud.com/davisjacobym/...s-original-mix - this one doesn't sound too bad.

    I think a lot of work might be required to get good/acceptable results, though way back in the 1960s/70s hit songs were produced with tape recorders - gradually moving over to multi-track recorders, and really rather crude methods by today's standards. It should be possible to do things slightly more easily using LMMS than the tape kit which was common then, though might require some ingenuity and determination.

    Out of devilment, I thought I'd go back and test Audacity (which is usually pretty good on precise timing) to see if I could handle multiple tracks, which would be required for the particular application. In fact it turns out to be rather easy, so that is perhaps actually another way to do the job. I was able to create half a dozen or so tracks, and then mix them, either muting individual tracks, or soloing them.

    Clearly "pro" people would rather do things differently, and some will have a lot of experience, and tools to do the job, but I wouldn't rule out trying Audacity.

    One other option for the choir - and I've noticed this even with professionals - is to delegate the work. There might be one or two people in the choir who will like doing this sort of thing, or know how to do it - and if the objective is to get the job done, then maybe that's a way forward. In the case of one audio pro studio, I noticed recently that although one member is clearly capable of doing all the work, he was very happy to pass things over to someone else who seemed to have more time to do it. The same might apply for the choir members.

    Of course our OP here may really want to find out how to do this stuff, and enjoy it, but if the objective is simply to get a result then consider delegating to others. However, that doesn't always work as they may not actually do the work - or do it in a timely or quick enough fashion - but that's a different issue.

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      #32
      I also found this, while looking for more information about Ocenaudio mentioned above. Whether any of the other suggestions are any good I can't really say.



      Support for Ocenaudio appears mostly to be in Portuguese, and this will perhaps explain why

      The development of ocenaudio began when a brazilian research group at the Federal University of Santa Catarina (LINSE) needed an easy-to-use audio editor loaded with features such as multiple file formats support, spectral analysis and audio signal generation. ocenaudio development focuses primarily on usability, providing the user with a cohesive and intuitive audio editing and analysis tool.

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        #33
        Originally posted by Dave2002 View Post


        Clearly "pro" people would rather do things differently, and some will have a lot of experience, and tools to do the job, but I wouldn't rule out trying Audacity.

        .
        Not sure that I would go along with your distinction
        BUT

        Reaper works fine and will do this perfectly
        and also has a large community of people who do this sort of thing all the time

        Comment


          #34
          I've been following this thread out of curiosity.

          It seems to have gone:

          GG: From experience - Reaper will do the job and is widely used.

          D: But there is also X and Y and Z.

          GG: But, from experience, Reaper will do the job and is widely used.

          D: But there is also T and V and W

          GG: But, from experience, Reaper will do the job and is widely used.

          D: But there is also Q and R and S

          ......
          ... Bemused.
          Last edited by johnb; 04-07-20, 12:05.

          Comment


            #35
            Still using Audioclean which I've had for years. Simple to use for straightforward things but lots of other features I don't use so those might be more awkward.
            Best regards,
            Jonathan

            Comment


              #36
              The rules on Reaper may have changed in the not so recent past, but currently - see http://cockos.com/reaper/reaper_2020...txt?august.txt
              and also https://www.reaper.fm/

              This is a temporary license key valid through the end of August 2020, offered to those working remotely and/or
              social distancing who want to use REAPER from home.

              REAPER can import your license key automatically if you copy the following text to your clipboard:

              --- cut ---

              Name: Temporary License #Masks4All #MasksSaveLives
              Email: takecare@everybody
              Version: 5 (valid through 6.x)
              Type: Non-commercial
              Created on: Sun Jun 14 23:06:21 2020
              Expires on: Mon Aug 31 23:06:21 2020

              :REAPER LICENSE
              nJxaicWLOn9Hi/Bfz58m0lOyvSRdBTBE3QLvfsma3X0Dn7ra/9HzmnnR0EX0
              gtBFeQbCFQ0rNa2tCOKR6LaolfrDU6u19pcmrVVCDHv+cUJoXD D4IboFmKym
              n3UfQj+Ir4Qj95Ch89RDbXbR0m6DiVqhE3oJj/9g2cz+OFKO1/FpgHdRTu/O
              E7ceFBtY4C+VyLjrl2OGkgv+rgXjORaDAcszeTwRgddLHEI0tT NHV09RDYZl
              15XoUz+iuOiK/m21UkQGUNe/OYDYSVEQRF4xIKT6yTlRzOUjrFrSEDMUySK7
              INxLVvLwqMaXM/BIiSBaBvbDEucPRC67kZtaRzWbGQ==
              :END

              --- cut ---

              Select the above text, and then choose "Copy" from your browser's Edit menu, then run REAPER.

              REAPER should then prompt you to import the license.
              I'm not sure that the "indefinite" trial still works - though I do have a paid for license anyway. It's about £60.

              Reaper does more - and different things - from Audacity. I'm not sure about Audioclean.
              Probably intended to clear out the mush between the ears



              For the original purpose of recording a choir (and possibly a small orchestra too) using remote software - a tool which supports multiple audio tracks would really be ideal. Both Audacity and Reaper do this. Audacity really does only do audio - AFAIK, whereas Reaper supports hardware - such as Midi controllers, Midi synthesizers etc., and Reaper will also provide support for virtual instruments and software synthesizers. These are probably not requirements for the choir.

              One detail re the choir was the implication that a zero or low(ish) cost solution would be preferred, and also that the software should run on Windows - though if the suggestion to delegate the task to another choir member is followed, then some of them who might just want to tackle the job would have Macs - and (heaven forbid ...!!) could access Garageband - which would do the job. Both Reaper and Logic and a few other DAWs are better than Garageband - but it would still work as a tool if the other computing resources were available.

              Audacity works on most computers, is free and will actually do the multi-track operations required. Whether it is easy enough to use for such a more complex operation as recording a choir I do not know - though I don't think it would be too difficult. It is, as I've mentioned before, probably easier to use and more effective than the tape based methods which were used by pop bands and hit song recording "studios" in the 60s and 70s.

              PS: Does that help - johnb?

              Comment


                #37
                Originally posted by Bryn View Post
                And if one is tempted to venture into ambisonics, it's a good fit with relevant plugins. I was sufficiently impressed to fork out the very reasonable registration fee, a few months ago. However, in line with the "find one and stick with it" approach, my main audio editing tool remains Sound Forge Pro (now sticking with version 13, having started with version 3, some decades ago.
                Curiously, although LMMS is tricky, clunky etc. and difficult to fathom, partly due to the implementation, and partly due to the very sketchy information available (yes - there are quite a few sources, including documents and videos, but few really address the totality of issues .....), I found this inside LMMS, so I'm guessing that Ambisonics plugins are available, though not enabled in my system:

                Comment


                  #38
                  Originally posted by johnb View Post
                  I've been following this thread out of curiosity.

                  It seems to have gone:



                  ... Bemused.


                  I'm spending a lot of time at the moment doing online gigs and projects
                  and lots of time trying to explain to folks why the laws of physics are as they are

                  The "joke" suggestion to improve internet connections and lower latency by setting your computer clock to 10 years in the future when all the "problems" will be solved seems to be not understood as really a joke by some

                  There will ALWAYS be more things to "try". BUT, why waste your life when others have done the work of testing everything for you ?
                  Broadcasting House used to have Cooleditpro (which became Adobe Audition) on most machines (apart from studios) maybe they had tried a few things to see what was simple and stable ? I moved from this to Reaper to do multichannel things because that's what most of the electroacoustic composers I meet were doing, these are often people who spend all their lives doing complicated audio things.... seem to be good people to follow?

                  I'm doing a software Beta testing job and the moment, I wouldn't want to inflict that on others.


                  I'm nostalgic for the B77 and razor blade myself... spent a night in the 1980's editing a soundtrack with Richard Rodney Bennett who really DID understand the laws of physics.

                  Comment


                    #39
                    I found that Audacity does also have a mixer https://manual.audacityteam.org/man/mixer_board.html

                    and there are a whole bunch of effects which do work - some are mentioned in this video - https://youtu.be/iDpoU-5H_qU

                    That video does mention specifically destructive editing - something to be avoided if there are insufficient backup copies, That's where many of the better DAWs do have an advantage - but even there they could be limits to how far one can wind back edits.

                    It's probably better to keep copies as well as use non-destructive edit tools, but when the crunch comes you might find that your non-destructive edit tool wasn't quite so non-destructive after all!

                    Thd video in this page shows how to mix down a whole bunch of tracks - https://ask.audio/articles/a-quick-g...-with-audacity

                    https://ask.audio/academy?nleloc=/wa...video-manual/1 You might find the video works - though you might hit some form of pay wall.

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Originally posted by Dave2002 View Post
                      I found that Audacity does also have a mixer https://manual.audacityteam.org/man/mixer_board.html

                      and there are a whole bunch of effects which do work - some are mentioned in this video - https://youtu.be/iDpoU-5H_qU

                      That video does mention specifically destructive editing - something to be avoided if there are insufficient backup copies, That's where many of the better DAWs do have an advantage - but even there they could be limits to how far one can wind back edits.

                      It's probably better to keep copies as well as use non-destructive edit tools, but when the crunch comes you might find that your non-destructive edit tool wasn't quite so non-destructive after all!

                      Thd video in this page shows how to mix down a whole bunch of tracks - https://ask.audio/articles/a-quick-g...-with-audacity

                      https://ask.audio/academy?nleloc=/wa...video-manual/1 You might find the video works - though you might hit some form of pay wall.

                      If you REALLY do insist on using Audacity
                      then whatever you do DON'T manually move the session files (or whatever they are called now?) .... Audacity saves things as a file with an associated folder. If you break the connection between the two you will have something that is very tricky to open. The folder will contain hundreds of very short audio snippets and the file has the instructions for how they are to be played and arranged etc ... several years ago I did a job for somone who had been making audio recordings in a rather dodgy country. They were worried that they would get their computer searched at the airport so randomly changed the names of all the files and folders relating to the recordings.... thus making everything scrambled. It took me several days to unpick and was immensely tedious and tricky.

                      BUT I might have mentioned that there are better alternatives

                      Comment


                        #41
                        Originally posted by MrGongGong View Post
                        BUT I might have mentioned that there are better alternatives
                        Really! See msg 36.

                        Sad to hear about the relabelling files story. Indeed, Audacity keeps a project file - which I assume is some form of table file, and a folder with lots of smaller files containing fragments of the audio. They always have to be moved together or copied together, otherwise things don't work.

                        I guess it's good to remind people of this.

                        Comment


                          #42
                          Originally posted by MrGongGong View Post
                          The "joke" suggestion to improve internet connections and lower latency by setting your computer clock to 10 years in the future when all the "problems" will be solved seems to be not understood as really a joke by some
                          That is indeed a joke, but some projects have been carried out by exploiting Moore's law, following an observation that probably in a few years time resources (storage and processing) will be significantly faster. I think that the first DNA sequencing which worked followed a strategy a bit like that. Working out how long to leave a project before "really" starting it is the tricky bit.

                          I once worked on a software project in which we put together a virtual system and software system which was very slow, but it showed that the code worked, and a few years later the software was dropped onto a new hardware system and I was told that the overall project time had been reduced very significantly by our approach.

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