Can you get to the Proms?

[Guest]

This wasn't really the issue for Radio 3 listeners. We could barely hear the orchestra at all for much of the time. Whatever the sound balance in the hall, we did not have the huge benefit of the visual compensating for any aural inbalances.

I'm getting a bit fed up with reading all these comments about how bad the radio sound is. If you don't like the sound on the radio, come in person to the concerts. And don't say that Yorkshire is too far away; we have regular Prommers from Germany, Sweden, the USA, Australia and New Zealand, to name but a few countries. If they can do it, so can you.

[Bryn]

Jane, though I disagree with E.A.'s assessment of the audio engineering in this instance, there no question that for at least a couple of Proms this year (specifically Proms 1 and 4) there was a serious problem of heavy dynamic compression applied to all transmission modes. There have also been a couple of stretches (each of 2 to 3 days) when the HD Sound via the schedule and iPlayer page links was garbled. I do think such problems deserve raising and discussing here.

In the current instance I have a feeling that E.A. would not have been happy with the balance heard in the RAH either. Though the orchestra was large for a period band, it was directed with considerable delicacy, I thought.

[cavatina]

. And don't say that Yorkshire is too far away; we have regular Prommers from Germany, Sweden, the USA, Australia and New Zealand, to name but a few countries. If they can do it, so can you.

Yes. And for what it's worth, it wouldn't be unusual to see all of these nationalities (and a Korean!) represented on the first row at the same time.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I'm getting a bit fed up with reading all these comments about how bad the radio sound is. If you don't like the sound on the radio, come in person to the concerts. And don't say that Yorkshire is too far away; we have regular Prommers from Germany, Sweden, the USA, Australia and New Zealand, to name but a few countries. If they can do it, so can you.

Well of course I could get there, as I'm usually off work during August, and in most years I do pay a few visits. I love the atmosphere of the RAH. But the pilgrimage hasn't been possible either last year and this year, for family reasons.
But you are missing the point, Jane. The BBC would not pay the subsidy for these concerts if it did not broadcast them. Broadcasting is their business.

Oh, and I think Bryn might disagree with me whatever I said.

[pilamenon]

I'm getting a bit fed up with reading all these comments about how bad the radio sound is. If you don't like the sound on the radio, come in person to the concerts. And don't say that Yorkshire is too far away; we have regular Prommers from Germany, Sweden, the USA, Australia and New Zealand, to name but a few countries. If they can do it, so can you.

Well of course I could get there, as I'm usually off work during August, and in most years I do pay a few visits. I love the atmosphere of the RAH. But the pilgrimage hasn't been possible either last year and this year, for family reasons.
But you are missing the point, Jane. The BBC would not pay the subsidy for these concerts if it did not broadcast them. Broadcasting is their business.

I think you're being too generous, EA. That earlier commment is the most ridiculous I have read in a while. Radio 3 listeners have every right to expect good audio engineering of the concerts - to say people should stop complaining and get down to the RAH smacks of a smug attitude which suggests people have nothing else to do with their lives apart from spend hours each day outside and inside the Hall. Very enjoyable for some, no doubt, but hardly practical for everyone, especially those living well outside the capital. The concerts have been broadcast in their entirety by R3 since time immemorial, and the station never stops reminding us to listen these days, so I think we should expect and demand high standards of sound quality.

In this instance, however, I was not suggesting the engineering was necessarily at fault, merely expressing some disappointment that I could not make out more of the detail in the orchestral contribution, which as a period instrument and performance enthusiast I was very much looking forward to.

[Bryn]

The concerts have been broadcast in their entirety by R3 since time immemorial

Really? I am sure I can remember a time when they were shared between R3's predecessor, the Third Programme, and the Home Service.

By the way, with one exception, the largest peaks during the broadcasts result from orchestral contributions, though admittedly it's a drum gives that boost.

[Serial_Apologist]

I'm getting a bit fed up with reading all these comments about how bad the radio sound is. If you don't like the sound on the radio, come in person to the concerts. And don't say that Yorkshire is too far away; we have regular Prommers from Germany, Sweden, the USA, Australia and New Zealand, to name but a few countries. If they can do it, so can you.

This kind of attitude seems to have become somewhat "current" among a certain group of self-proclaimed chummy front rowers at the Proms this year.

One supposes that it hasn't occurred to them that regular Prommers from e.g. Germany, Sweden, Australia and New Zealand must be on pretty good incomes to be able to attend the Proms on that basis? Or, for that matter, that unemployment in the NE here has for a long time been among the highest anywhere in the EU, while working hours nationwide are amongst the highest?

But one also supposes that wouldn't occur to someone who quotes their address as... Beckenham?

S-A

[Al R Gando]

I'm getting a bit fed up with reading all these comments about how bad the radio sound is. If you don't like the sound on the radio, come in person to the concerts. And don't say that Yorkshire is too far away; we have regular Prommers from Germany, Sweden, the USA, Australia and New Zealand, to name but a few countries. If they can do it, so can you.

That strikes me as an ill-considered remark. The concerts are promoted by the BBC - the middle "B" stands for "Broadcasting", in case you forgot? Even the capacious leviathan of the Albert Hall could not accommodate 1/100th of those who listen at home. Moreover, many are unable to afford the luxury of travelling to London where a coffee & sandwich will cost five pounds, and a hotel-room for the night a king's ransom. Others are too infirm to make such a journey. I suggest you give some thought to such matters before making this kind of comment.

But one also supposes that wouldn't occur to someone who quotes their address as... Beckenham?

Or one whose forum image is... a parrot :(

[cavatina]

to say people should stop complaining and get down to the RAH smacks of a smug attitude which suggests people have nothing else to do with their lives apart from spend hours each day outside and inside the Hall.

Is 7.50 really that onerous for a seat in the circle? Don't be cheap now; it's really worth it.

As I've said, I've been doing an enormous amount of reading and writing every day, and have nothing to be ashamed of as far as how I'm spending my summer. While I agree with you that broadcast quality should be kept high, I can't help but wonder what percentage of all this "concern" is mere nitpickery.

[cavatina]

Or one whose forum image is... a parrot :(

I've never known Jane to do anything but think for herself. She's a bird lover, and poking fun at avatars rather than addressing the issues at hand is quite nasty of you.

[Bryn]

Looks more like Melopsittacus undulatus, what the Brits know as a budgerigar (what Americans, I seem to recall name a parakeet) to me. It is indeed of the parrot group, but not what most people would identify as a parrot.

[Anna]

I'm getting a bit fed up with reading all these comments about how bad the radio sound is. If you don't like the sound on the radio, come in person to the concerts. And don't say that Yorkshire is too far away

I'm also fed up with comments like this. Yorkshire is not too far away, neither is Wales and it's not the cost of a ticket alone, which is cheap, its a) train fare which would be between £50-£60 return depending on timings, b) as I live 30 miles from a station the cost of a taxi back home from my nearest station (last trains leave London at 22.45 or 23.30) which would be on average £35-£40 at 2.00am or the alternative is not missing the end of the late night Prom and staying overnight and paying for accommodation in London. So, it's not lack of wanting, it's lack of finances to be able to shell out well over £150 to £200 per concert.

Incidentally, I like Jane's avatar, it's very pretty and feminine.

[Panjandrum]

Is 7.50 really that onerous for a seat in the circle? Don't be cheap now; it's really worth it.

Ever travelled by National Rail? You need to multiply that 7.50 tenfold, then add a pony for the cost of an acceptable meal, and you're looking at least a ton for the night. If quibbling over a hundred smackers is mere "nitpicking" then so be it.

[Petrushka]

Ever travelled by National Rail? You need to multiply that 7.50 tenfold, then add a pony for the cost of an acceptable meal, and you're looking at least a ton for the night. If quibbling over a hundred smackers is mere "nitpicking" then so be it.

Travelling down as I do from central England by rail is anywhere from £27-£50 depending on time of day. Cheaper tickets are available usually at some unearthly hour and if you want to travel by Megabus/Megatrain be prepared to be treated like cattle as well. I can get a decent hotel room for £69 a night and an acceptable enough meal (at a Garfunkel's, for instance) for around £12 though I often snack it. Add a decent stalls ticket (don't want to stand in the Arena after tramping round London all day and the recent Haitink Brahms were £42 each) and you are looking at a hefty bill and you can multiply all but the train fare by how many days spent there. That's why a major disappointment, like the recent mutilated Gergiev Swan Lake, really does hurt.

[makropulos]

Travelling down as I do from central England by rail is anywhere from £27-£50 depending on time of day. Cheaper tickets are available usually at some unearthly hour and if you want to travel by Megabus/Megatrain be prepared to be treated like cattle as well. I can get a decent hotel room for £69 a night and an acceptable enough meal (at a Garfunkel's, for instance) for around £12 though I often snack it. Add a decent stalls ticket (don't want to stand in the Arena after tramping round London all day and the recent Haitink Brahms were £42 each) and you are looking at a hefty bill and you can multiply all but the train fare by how many days spent there. That's why a major disappointment, like the recent mutilated Gergiev Swan Lake, really does hurt.

Absolutely dead right, Petrushka. Coming down from Sheffield to a Prom is the easy bit (and often the cheapest bit with a bargain rail ticket), but getting back afterwards is virtually impossible (last train at 10:25 from St Pancras is usually cutting it too fine - and at weekends that train goes at 8:55 p.m. which is useless). So it's very easy for people who live within, say, 60 miles of London to do this, and to get home afterwards. When I lived in Kent I wouldn't hesitate to do exactly that. But once you factor in a hotel (especially), meals and the like, it all becomes a bit of a campaign.

For really promising concerts, it's well worth doing, of course, but in my view it's pretty outrageous to suggest that we should just expect to make a bit of an effort and just turn up to London concerts. As you have explained, that's not as simple as it sounds. And there is nothing at all wrong with expecting decent broadcast quality - after all, it's what we get most nights.