Prom 44: Wednesday 17th August at 7.30 p.m. (Russian Music)

[Ruth Elleson]

I shall have to check iPlayer to discover what Ms Batiashvili's encore was. It sounded a bit like something by Kreisler, but maybe it was one of Shostakovich's pastiches.

I've never posted on FOR3 before but registered in order to answer your question!

From the BBC Proms Twitter feed: "Tonight's encore from Lisa Batiashvili is Shostakovich, arr Tamas Batiashvili: Lyrical Waltz from Seven Dolls' Dances".

I thought it was a fabulous concert all round, though it did feel one piece too long. I wouldn't have wanted to choose which piece to lose/move to a different Prom, though!

[Simon B]

One of the key things that affects orchestral sound in the RAH is how orchestras set up on the stage. It sounds *so* much better with the layout e.g. the Philharmonia and LSO usually employ.

The key thing is that the brass have to be in a line way up on the risers toward the back of the stage, and the woodwind also raised above the strings. Timps are best where they were tonight in front of Sir Henry's bust. The BBC orchestras tend to put the timps over on the first violin side which probably makes ensemble easier but doesn't work as well acoustically as they tend to get swallowed. Double basses also get swallowed if they're not carefully placed, again the Philharmonia had them in the right place.

As soon as you do the continental thing of setting up with everyone almost on the level, trumpets and trombones playing into their string and woodwind colleagues backs (and ears) you're doomed from the start IMO. This had a lot to do with why the Mariinsky orchestra sounded muffled, thin and underpowered from essentially the same seat from which the Philharmonia and RPO sounded rich, deep and powerful.

Also, the wide-bore brass instruments, piston-valve trumpets etc of British orchestras are often maligned by those preferring the mellower rotary valve trumpets and (often feeble sounding IMO) peashooter trombones of say the Vienna Phil. But, in great swathes of the repertoire and in a building this size there's a lot to be said for the modern brass instruments. Like fff actually makes a real impact!

Saying all of that, it helps if you blow, scrape and bash hard! It's an enormous volume of building to fill with sound, so you'd better make a lot of it if you want to make any real impression...

[Ventilhorn]

I agree with Ferretfancy, orchestral sound varies considerably at the proms, and I've often been disappointed with even the greatest of visiting bands. Is it simply that their sound, developed in their particular hall, doesn't "translate" well to the RAH with its peculiar demands? Do the BBC orchestras and conductors know how to "play out" into this acoustic better?
Those of you who attend often - does the hall sound more literally "brilliant" with fewer people in it? Again, years ago I heard an engineer in a R3 programme comment that the RAH goes very dry with a packed house (e.g. the last night) and he had to add some artificial reverb...
When unusual rep. is done (presumably often with a smaller audience) it does seem to sound brighter and more spacious here at home, and I've often felt that whether listening on FM, various digital platforms and the AAC 320kbps stream.

Salonen certainly knew how to play it! Some years ago I recall reading a report of him going back halfway into the arena at rehearsal, to judge & balance the sound of his orchestra the better.

If Silvestri was conducting in a venue for the first time, he would always stand in the middle of the empty stage, clap his hands and listen to the reverb. I recall a Northern tour which we made - the main item on the programme being Brahms 1st symphony.
In the City Hall in Hull, the performance took 52 minutes.
In Manchester's Free Trade Hall we timed it at 46 minutes.

... and both performances felt absolutely right!

When we arrived in the Gaumont Cinema in Gloucester to give an afternoon performance, Silvestri did his hand clapping act, turned to ther assembled orchestra and said "So. We finish at harpass four"

He did not reappear until 2.25 - and we finished at harpass four!

Good morning all,

VH

[Nick Armstrong]

If Silvestri was conducting in a venue for the first time, he would always stand in the middle of the empty stage, clap his hands and listen to the reverb. I recall a Northern tour which we made - the main item on the programme being Brahms 1st symphony.
In the City Hall in Hull, the performance took 52 minutes.
In Manchester's Free Trade Hall we timed it at 46 minutes.

... and both performances felt absolutely right!

When we arrived in the Gaumont Cinema in Gloucester to give an afternoon performance, Silvestri did his hand clapping act, turned to ther assembled orchestra and said "So. We finish at harpass four"

He did not reappear until 2.25 - and we finished at harpass four!

Good morning all,

VH

Fascinating, VH

And Simon B - I must pay more attention to the way orchestras are laid out. Especially interesting that the timps sounds better up in front of Sir 'Enry, rather than round the side.

[amac4165]

One of the key things that affects orchestral sound in the RAH is how orchestras set up on the stage. It sounds *so* much better with the layout e.g. the Philharmonia and LSO usually employ.

..

That lay out is certainly the best for the "front of the arena" - and was basically the lay out the Royal Phil used on Tuesday although the located the timpani in the "BBC position".

It is amazing that all orchestras are not - persuaded to use this lay out as the difference the hall is amazing.

[prokkyshosty]

A worthy contender for Prom of the season, as many people are saying. Everything was better than I could've dared hope for. On a personal note, it was wonderful to see Esa-Pekka again after missing him in Los Angeles the last two years. As for the Philharmonia, I grew to love this orchestra many years ago when I was concert-going in London more regularly (at the tail end of the Hugh Bean era), so seeing and hearing them be as wonderful as I remembered them was a special treat.

In fact, it suddenly occurred to me last night... my first Mahler concert EVER was the Philharmonia, conducted by Esa-Pekka Salonen, about 20 years ago at the RFH (Mahler's 4th). Boy do I owe them a debt for that one!

[EdgeleyRob]

Shostakovich fans please note: the Proms 2011 Shostakovich mini-festival begins with this concert

And also ends, with this concert.

Which is about an hour longer than the Proms 2011 Vaughan Williams mini-festival

Seriously though, what a fantastic concert.The Shostakovich concerto was spellbinding!

[3rd Viennese School]

I agree with all that this was a fantastic concert! The Shoshty Violin was so good I had to stop washing up a few times to listen. Actually, I saw this live at the Proms in 2004 which unfortunately has been my last visit, to date. Always enjoy that non stop mvt 2 with theDSCH and all that. The presenter didn’t mention that- its one of his first works with that in it. The playing was electric. Would have been good on television.

I hanged around for the Tchaikovsky- it was mentioned a few weeks back during the Lizst Dante and I was thinking “Yeah, but Tchaikovsky does this better!” Quite a powerful performance of this, I thought, and, for the first time I could actually link the Gates of Hell idea to the piece. Especially when at the end all the memories have faded and your back in the 2nd circle of hell again!

Petruska good- my favourite of the Stravinksy trilogy.

Didn’t hear the football ballet- missed it.

3VS

[Petrushka]

You can never tell sometimes when looking at the Proms Guide which concerts will really stand out when the time comes. The Gergiev Swan Lake for instance looked to me to be an absolute winner while this Philharmonia Prom looked more run of the mill on paper. When we cast our eyes back at the end of the season this one will stand out as something very special.

This happens to me every season: I pick at least one surpisingly duff Prom and end up regretting not choosing the one next to it!

[Threni]

Salonen has done it again! I've only listened to Petrushka so far but will listen to the rest of the concert . Every time Salonen conducts Stravinsky it turns to gold! He is the best Stravinsky conductor around at the moment in my opinion. Gegriev seems to have gone off on one at the moment and Atherton doesn't seem to have done Stravinsky for some time. So Salonen is on top at the moment. I'm looking forward to hearing him doing the Rite next week in Edinburgh. I will also listen to the Shostakovich later and the Tchaikovsky.

[Chris Newman]

Salonen certainly knew how to play it! Some years ago I recall reading a report of him going back halfway into the arena at rehearsal, to judge & balance the sound of his orchestra the better.

When I first began Promming in the late 60s Anatole Fistoulari, the conductor, was a regular listener sitting on one of the chairs by the fountain. Apart from his need to sit (he had dodgy legs by then) he swore that the middle of the arena was the best place for listening in the hall and had always tried things out there when he had conducted at the Albert Hall. I had a season ticket in those days and never worked out how he was always in his seat when we ran up the steps. Influence, I guess.

[Chris Newman]

Back on topic. Even only listening on air I reckon the Philharmonia and Salonen have given us the greatest orchestral playing we shall hear this season.

[Petrushka]

Salonen certainly knew how to play it! Some years ago I recall reading a report of him going back halfway into the arena at rehearsal, to judge & balance the sound of his orchestra the better.

I managed to sneak into a rehearsal of Berlioz's Damnation of Faust with Solti and the Chicago SO at a 1989 Prom and Solti went right to the back of the Arena and, if memory serves me correctly, sat in one of the centre stalls seats checking on the balance. Fascinating to watch him at work.

[BBMmk2]

Who was the culprit that coughed right at the end of Petrushka?

[Ferretfancy]

Brassbandmaestro

I think the coughers wait for their moments. This one was in the stalls halfway back on the right, those seats and the loggia boxes are a sort of training camp. Courses on inter movement clapping can be booked in the rear circle.