Chailly cancels Proms

[richardfinegold]

You've more chance of winning the Lottery seven times in a row (I bet you'd like to see that, too ) - and quite rightly: Mahler's Music is better than any of the wonderful performances it has received from its various performers on record and in concert, and will continue to be one of the pinnacles of the human imagination for a helluva lot more than "a few years", attracting and challenging performers and listeners. Those who don't like it will just have to do what I do with Rimsky's Scheherazade, or Ravel's orchestral reduction of Mussorgsky's Pictures - just leave it for those who do and listen to something more to their tastes: there's a lot of other stuff out there.

Mahler's music juxtaposes irony, extreme beauty, terror, humor, and other sentiments in a very unique way. It speaks more to modern life than many other Composers that we revere. In an age where information flies at us from all corners of the globe in record time, GM's music seems more contemporary than that of other revered Composers.

[kea]

Mahler's music is over a hundred years old. I'm sure we could find something even more contemporary if we looked for it

The real reason Mahler is programmed so frequently is because his idiom was endlessly ripped off and imitated by film composers. Therefore this makes it instantly accessible to first-time concert-goers who will find that it "sounds like" film music and is therefore far more enjoyable than all that powdered-wiggy Beethoven, Bach, Handel tripe that turned generations of schoolboys off classical music forever. Whereas while the tutti bits in Bruckner will possibly remind listeners of a favourite moment in Indiana Jones or Lord of the Rings, there are far too many quiet bits that don't sound like any part of a film at all and even require some knowledge of music theory to understand. Also it's too uplifting, today's audiences are mature and want entertainment with real negative emotions, none of this old-fashioned spiritual nonsense.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

The real reason Mahler is programmed so frequently is because his idiom was endlessly ripped off and imitated by film composers.

Simplistic, patronising guff, kea - as I'm sure you're aware. Which film composers who ripped him off were responsible for Mahler's "emergence" in the 1960s? Did Karajan take to the Music in the mid-1970s because he enjoyed Star Wars? Has Boulez performed this Music throughout his career because he's a fan of John Williams? And do all the fans who dress up in Tolkien costumes also have Das Lied von der Erde regularly on their i-Pods.
There is no single "real" reason that "explains" Mahler's popularity with performers and audiences, but in this case, rfg gets closer to the truth than you do.

[Ferretfancy]

You've more chance of winning the Lottery seven times in a row (I bet you'd like to see that, too ) - and quite rightly: Mahler's Music is better than any of the wonderful performances it has received from its various performers on record and in concert, and will continue to be one of the pinnacles of the human imagination for a helluva lot more than "a few years", attracting and challenging performers and listeners. Those who don't like it will just have to do what I do with Rimsky's Scheherazade, or Ravel's orchestral reduction of Mussorgsky's Pictures - just leave it for those who do and listen to something more to their tastes: there's a lot of other stuff out there.

ferney,

Although I don't entirely share your view of Mahler's music, I happily accept that it has a particular kind of greatness. It's just that it doesn't always speak to me. I can easily enjoy the first four symphonies, indeed I would say that Abbado's performance of the third at the Proms with the LSO was one of the most memorable concerts of my life.

As the sequence of his symphonies progresses, I find the emotional breast beating too much to take, I'm sure that's my fault, but there you are, as you say there's still so much music to hear.

What I do take exception to, and perhaps I'm not alone, is the way in which Mahler performance has become such a huge cult, with all the attendant argument and discussion. Enthusiasts seem to feel that if only they listen hard enough, and seek the opinions of others, then they will be privileged to enter the great composer's mind and develop a unique insight.

We all have our idols, Mozart is mine, but I hope I don't exhaust other people's patience in sometimes expressing my love of it.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Ferretf

I was picking up on your joshing "moritorium" suggestion; and I agree - there are some people who would benefit from exposure to some other Music - if only to get deeper into Gus' mind!

As for Mozart - I wish there was more discussion of that Music than there is. I would personally suggest a minimum of seven Threads for every time Bbm lets us know he doesn't like it much.

[teamsaint]

T Bags question about Mahler concerned why is is programmed so frequently at the Proms, not about why it is so popular with conductors and audiences.

Money, and the fear based programming that this begets, are close to the nub of that issue.

[Roehre]

Mahler's music juxtaposes irony, extreme beauty, terror, humor, and other sentiments in a very unique way. It speaks more to modern life than many other Composers that we revere. In an age where information flies at us from all corners of the globe in record time, GM's music seems more contemporary than that of other revered Composers.

Banning his music in Nazi-Germany effectively affected performances of his works in the 1930s and '40s (inside but also outside Germany), and hence blocking the chance to become more "popular" before the age of omnipresent recordings, it is IMO not by chance that the works' juxtapositioning of irony, extreme beauty, terror and humor with other sentiments spoke more to the post-1945 public than interbellum audiences.

The recording industry with the stereo recordings from the mid 1950s onwards contributed to the further development of Mahler's symphonies 2,3,5-10 after the centenary year 1960 (The Songs, LvdE and symphones 1 and 4 were already quite popular by then, but it is not by chance that these are the less aurally complicated works to perform or record).

In 1970 there still only 5 complete cycles had been made or were in preparation: Bernstein, Haitink, Kubelik, Abravanel and Solti.

....What I do take exception to, and perhaps I'm not alone, is the way in which Mahler performance has become such a huge cult,..

In 1972 Klemperer already "complained" that Mahler had become a fashion.
And though Mahler is very high in my appreciation, I most certainly share this sentiment with FF.

[Roehre]

...
As for Mozart - I wish there was more discussion of that Music than there is. I would personally suggest a minimum of seven Threads for every time Bbm lets us know he doesn't like it much.

And Bbm is not the only one

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

And Bbm is not the only one

Very well - fourteen Threads!

[Roehre]

Very well - fourteen Threads!

Any more bids ?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Any more bids ?

[Bryn]

I even like the stuff he didn't write, liked 297b and the Requiem.

[P. G. Tipps]

Any more bids ?

Yes, you can include me ... but nobody here seems to be that bothered, so what's the point? ...

[teamsaint]

I even like the stuff he didn't write, liked 297b and the Requiem.

[richardfinegold]

Mahler's music is over a hundred years old. I'm sure we could find something even more contemporary if we looked for it

The real reason Mahler is programmed so frequently is because his idiom was endlessly ripped off and imitated by film composers. Therefore this makes it instantly accessible to first-time concert-goers who will find that it "sounds like" film music and is therefore far more enjoyable than all that powdered-wiggy Beethoven, Bach, Handel tripe that turned generations of schoolboys off classical music forever. Whereas while the tutti bits in Bruckner will possibly remind listeners of a favourite moment in Indiana Jones or Lord of the Rings, there are far too many quiet bits that don't sound like any part of a film at all and even require some knowledge of music theory to understand. Also it's too uplifting, today's audiences are mature and want entertainment with real negative emotions, none of this old-fashioned spiritual nonsense.

Or perhaps GM was decades ahead of his time?