Prom 57 - 29.08.14: Mahler 2, Swedish RSO, Royal / Stotijn / Harding

[Historian]

The organ was playing at the end, but obviously not sufficiently audibly; what a pity.

[Lento]

The organ was playing at the end, but obviously not sufficiently audibly; what a pity.

Thanks: I must listen again!

[jayne lee wilson]

Tim Ashley's comment in the G., that the Mahler symphony's opening was "more an indistinct snarl than a phrase" proves once again how shockingly different the audition of RAH concerts can be between different parts of the hall, hall itself and various home concert halls...

Richard J. (in the hall) and I (in a very sweet spot) seem to have been very lucky with our observation platforms..

[amac4165]

The organ was playing at the end, but obviously not sufficiently audibly; what a pity.

To be honest it was not much in the hall - most people I have spoken to there since more or less full the same as I did.

Notwithstanding tuning and organ issues . trouble was, some of the slower bits were so slow in almost stopped, then all of a sudden it rushed ahead at a great pace. Resulting in a very uneven feel to the whole thing.

The organist certainly seem to be playing the organ and the stops were coming out ! Whether that was the actual pipe organ or some other organ. I do not know - it certainly did not have much presence in the hall

amac

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I think that this should be at least 5 minutes though not sure if it is actually specified in the score.

Has anyone responded to this? You've got it practically word-for-word, Pet. After the last bar of the First Movement there is specified in the score, hier folgt eine pause von mindestens 5 minuten - "Here follows a pause of at least Five minutes". So there could be an Interval at this point - although the idea horrifies me!

[BBMmk2]

You would have thought with DH's mentors, Abbado and Rattle, that the soloists singing as has been heard before, should have said no to her appearance?

[Petrushka]

Has anyone responded to this? You've got it practically word-for-word, Pet. After the last bar of the First Movement there is specified in the score, hier folgt eine pause von mindestens 5 minuten - "Here follows a pause of at least Five minutes". So there could be an Interval at this point - although the idea horrifies me!

'At least' 5 minutes which implies something longer though I'd doubt if Mahler wanted an interval as we know it (choc ices, drinks, chit-chat etc) but had in mind a period when we can reflect on what we've just heard. I often do so when playing the work on CD.

[grandchant]

Yes it did almost stop in places, not a problem because the compelling logical structure always leads the listener on. The wonderful progression of the final movement (after the initial blast) took on an almost timeless quality. Anyway it worked for me.
And yes, the 'five minute pause' is definitely a pause for reflection, not an interval.

[gedsmk]

Nobody's forcing you to listen to more performances than you want to.

yes, that's true. And I was talking about the proms, not about other concerts. If it was the actual RAH organ played at this performance then IMHO the dynamic level was poorly represented in the broadcast.

[Historian]

If it was the actual RAH organ played at this performance then IMHO the dynamic level was poorly represented in the broadcast.

I agree that the broadcast failed to represent the organ clearly; several posts showed that it was barely discernible at best.

[Flosshilde]

yes, that's true. And I was talking about the proms, not about other concerts.

Sorry - re-reading your post I realise that. Has there really been a performance nearly every year this decade? That does seem a bit excessive whatever the merits or qualities of the work, when there is so much music worth hearing that isn't performed.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Sorry - re-reading your post I realise that. Has there really been a performance nearly every year this decade? That does seem a bit excessive whatever the merits or qualities of the work, when there is so much music worth hearing that isn't performed.

Bearing in mind it's only half-way through, 2011 (first time since 2006, its only performance in that decade), 2013 and 2014 - each time performed by a visiting orchestra.

The most performances in a decade the work received was the 1990s ('90, '92, '95, '96, '98, '99) - that's a third of the total number of performances in the entire history of the Proms!

[pureimagination]

I really don't know why some are complaining about a great piece of music being performed at the proms 'too often'. Surely every performance is going to vary depending on the orchestra/conductor etc. Opinions are going to vary too on whose was the most memorable performance. Some music can be spoiled by overfamiliarity but surely not hearing Mahler's 2nd performed live once every year. Several great works (Rach. Piano 2, Holst The Planets etc. Jerusalem!) are performed almost every year at the Proms but I never get tired of hearing them.

[bluestateprommer]

I was listening on Radio 3 via Freeview and found the sound perfectly ok apart from the off-stage brass and timps which weren't distant enough. Indeed, the off-stage timps sounded louder than those in the main orchestra! Perhaps this is what DracoM means by 'lacking magic'. I also found the harp too closely miked.

I'd agree with RichardJ that Harding's pacing sounded 'natural and right'. I do, however, side with DracoM regarding the soloists but the choral contribution was excellent, the very quiet first entry, in particular, was hushed but audible.

All in all, I found much to enjoy here.

On the whole, I'm generally with Petrushka on this Mahler 2, especially given my own personal misgivings about Daniel Harding resulting from reading many reports about his general 'spoiled brat' behavior with some orchestras, and his less-than-compelling appearance with the Chicago SO a few years back (the only time I've seen him live - I'm not in any hurry for seconds). Even with some debits, this Mahler 2 went pretty fine, on the whole. On the debit side, small fractional ensemble slips aside, his pacing of the scherzo seemed a tad slow and labored, and Christianne Stotijn, who's been very good in other live R3 relays I've heard from her, was far from her best on this occasion. But most of the pacing felt good, especially over the long expanse of the finale, and the SRSO is a fine band indeed, so DH seems to have them in good shape over his time as principal conductor, something like 7 years now. Excellent work from the chorus as well.

(BTW, no one should be surprised if Kate Royal is getting a number of gigs singing Mahler 2, especially if she doesn't have to travel far and lose time with her kids.)