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    Originally posted by LMcD View Post

    Looks like it - no sign of blood between the street door and F's FIAT (a car which, to judge from Tom's expression earlier, did not meet with the latter's approval).
    ... the Fiat cinquecento is a notoriously small car for transporting a dead body, hence his displeasure having tried the earlier larger cars

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      And the ashtray(s)!

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        Originally posted by vinteuil View Post

        ... the Fiat cinquecento is a notoriously small car for transporting a dead body, hence his displeasure having tried the earlier larger cars

        .
        I've decided that, at least on the basis of Episodes 1 to 5, Tom can best be described as an occasionally callous bungler.

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          Originally posted by LMcD View Post

          I've decided that, at least on the basis of Episodes 1 to 5, Tom can best be described as an occasionally callous bungler.
          ... fortunately (for him - and by now we are wishing him to get away with it, aren't we?) Ripley's incompetence is matched by that of Inspector Ravini : no Maigret he!
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            Originally posted by vinteuil View Post

            ... fortunately (for him - and by now we are wishing him to get away with it, aren't we?) Ripley's incompetence is matched by that of Inspector Ravini : no Maigret he!
            .
            Why does nobody ask for a photograph?

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              Originally posted by kernelbogey View Post
              Channel Four tonight - piano talent show from 'public' pianos...may interest some!
              https://www.channel4.com/programmes/the-piano
              This entertaining programme returns this coming Sunday at 9pm. I shall probably watch it; the trouble is that now that anybody having a go must have half an eye on the possibility for them, the absence of the "surprise" element knocks some of the charm off,

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                Bumping this....

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                  Originally posted by Serial_Apologist View Post

                  This entertaining programme returns this coming Sunday at 9pm. I shall probably watch it; the trouble is that now that anybody having a go must have half an eye on the possibility for them, the absence of the "surprise" element knocks some of the charm off,
                  I didn't get that impression tonight, their music making is something very personal rather than a way of getting noticed.
                  In light of all the ongoing discussion and deploring of the lack of political will or even interest when it come to music and access to it for children in school in this country, the person who stood out for me(in addition to his playing) was the young boxer who played Chopin and mentioned that it was the council provided tuition which enabled him to achieve that as although he had "an Argos keyboard" at home his family couldn't afford lessons.
                  On a more positive note, Mika and LangLang continue to be a most entertaining couple, and also one of the people featured can now go home and say that LangLang was a page turner(or e- equivalent) for her playing.
                  Last edited by oddoneout; 28-04-24, 22:31.

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                    Originally posted by oddoneout View Post
                    I didn't get that impression tonight, their music making is something very personal rather than a way of getting noticed.
                    In light of all the ongoing discussion and deploring of the lack of political will or even interest when it come to music and access to it for children in school in this country, the person who stood out for me(in addition to his playing) was the young boxer who played Chopin and mentioned that it was the council provided tuition which enabled him to achieve that as although he had "an Argos keyboard" at home his family couldn't afford lessons.
                    On a more positive note, Mika and LangLang continue to be a most entertaining couple, and also one of the people featured can now go home and say that LangLang was a page turner(or e- equivalent) for her playing.
                    By contrast, and I can't help wondering if something about the nature of this sort of programme has changed my view from last year, I found Mika's attitude painfully inappropriate and condescending, on both occasions referring to the two Chopin interpretations as "going right off the rhythm" or words to that effect, when Chopin, being all about rubato, is absolutely supposed to "go off rhythm". For the life of me I could not see what was "inappropriate" about the first choice of piece by the slightly older woman and then OK about the second. I think he just covers retrospectively for his own misjudgements on a big scale. I get the feeling that Lang Lang is often uncomfortable.

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                      Originally posted by Serial_Apologist View Post

                      By contrast, and I can't help wondering if something about the nature of this sort of programme has changed my view from last year, I found Mika's attitude painfully inappropriate and condescending, on both occasions referring to the two Chopin interpretations as "going right off the rhythm" or words to that effect, when Chopin, being all about rubato, is absolutely supposed to "go off rhythm". For the life of me I could not see what was "inappropriate" about the first choice of piece by the slightly older woman and then OK about the second. I think he just covers retrospectively for his own misjudgements on a big scale. I get the feeling that Lang Lang is often uncomfortable.
                      I don't know whether it was inappropriate(many of the pieces played in the last series and also in tonight's programme are not material I know at all) but I did notice the change in her whole approach and body language with the Einaudi, relaxing into it rather than fighting it as she seemed to be in the first piece.
                      It is inevitably a contrived set-up, and I don't know if I'm going to find that too off-putting this time around; the novelty of the first series overcame that, but can't be repeated.
                      I wondered if the comment about off-rhythm Chopin was to do with losing the underlying pulse of the music rather than not keeping to strict time values. If rubato is simply playing fast and loose with time values, rather than balancing the variation within a phrase, then doesn't it risk losing meaning, or tipping over into improvisation? Not so much going off at a tangent as losing the thread of what's on the page.
                      The "not paying back" is something I find unsettling with some keyboard players, especially in Classical repertoire. A phrase is speeded up or slowed down but doesn't "add up" by the time it goes into the next, which my brain then tries to resolve but can't, and so the flow gets interrupted rather than enhanced. That may be due to views absorbed early on from instrumental tutors - with the meaning of rubato as robbed meaning there needed to be a payback or restoration at some point.
                      Last edited by oddoneout; 29-04-24, 08:27. Reason: Got too late to finish the post!

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                        'Dopesick' (BBC2 and iPlayer) is an 8-part dramatization of Beth Macy's book about the opioid scandal in the USA, dealing specifically with OxyContin, the Sackler family and the actions of various governmental and non-governmental bodies. I'm gripped (I've tried to avoid using certain other words!) after Episode 1. Admirers of the recently screened 'The Dropout' and Michael Keaton, and anybody else looking for a well-crafted drama on an important topic, might well find it worthwhile giving this series a try.
                        (There's also a Netflix series about OxyContin, called 'Painkiller', which I haven't seen, but which seems to be regarded as a far less satisfactory treatment of the subject).

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                          Originally posted by oddoneout View Post

                          I don't know whether it was inappropriate(many of the pieces played in the last series and also in tonight's programme are not material I know at all) but I did notice the change in her whole approach and body language with the Einaudi, relaxing into it rather than fighting it as she seemed to be in the first piece.
                          It is inevitably a contrived set-up, and I don't know if I'm going to find that too off-putting this time around; the novelty of the first series overcame that, but can't be repeated.
                          I wondered if the comment about off-rhythm Chopin was to do with losing the underlying pulse of the music rather than not keeping to strict time values. If rubato is simply playing fast and loose with time values, rather than balancing the variation within a phrase, then doesn't it risk losing meaning, or tipping over into improvisation? Not so much going off at a tangent as losing the thread of what's on the page.
                          The "not paying back" is something I find unsettling with some keyboard players, especially in Classical repertoire. A phrase is speeded up or slowed down but doesn't "add up" by the time it goes into the next, which my brain then tries to resolve but can't, and so the flow gets interrupted rather than enhanced. That may be due to views absorbed early on from instrumental tutors - with the meaning of rubato as robbed meaning there needed to be a payback or restoration at some point.
                          I have indeed seen rubato defined as slowing down and then speeding back up to compensate. I'm not so sure about this particular definition - to my ears at least the practice stemmed from singers in Italian C19 opera slowing down in an exaggerated manner expressively to dramatise a clinching passage to an aria where the vocal line ascends to its highest note, delaying moving to the cadence. One of many clichés in the genre that really turns me off, I have to say! It's fine if used just to linger "meaningfully" over certain passages, in my opinion. It can be deployed to tension building and releasing ends where jazz musicians such as Louis Armstrong or Billie Holiday phrase while varying the pace of the line over an otherwise fixed tempo, although I'm not quite sure whether this practice would qualify as rubato.

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                            Originally posted by Serial_Apologist View Post

                            I have indeed seen rubato defined as slowing down and then speeding back up to compensate. I'm not so sure about this particular definition - to my ears at least the practice stemmed from singers in Italian C19 opera slowing down in an exaggerated manner expressively to dramatise a clinching passage to an aria where the vocal line ascends to its highest note, delaying moving to the cadence. One of many clichés in the genre that really turns me off, I have to say! I.
                            ... I would rather see its roots in the tradition of notes inégales​ -



                            where the keyboard player makes up for the limitations of the instrument by using agogic rhythms

                            .

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                              Originally posted by vinteuil View Post

                              ... I would rather see its roots in the tradition of notes inégales​ -



                              where the keyboard player makes up for the limitations of the instrument by using agogic rhythms

                              .
                              Most interesting thinks, vints - the practice in jazz is mentioned at the bottom of the item, this being the first time I'd seen a definition for it, to be honest! There are lots of other ways of playing "across the beat" to oversimplify, in jazz - the late John Taylor being a master at expanding and contracting pace, pitch duration values or rubato, or seemingly all three simultaneously, (the essence of the surprise element consisting in the impossibility to pinpoint while it is unfolding) over quite lengthy phrases to arrive on target, come the conclusion. it would seem one has to "internalise" the implicit mathematics involved spontaneously to bring it off, otherwise it sounds contrived and often clumsily so. Jazz drummers do it as a normal way of life - maybe it's easier for them, not having to think up pitch choices at the same time as all the rest!

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                                On the recommendation of a family member I streamed Ep 1 of Ripley yesterday eve & found it glacially slow -- my ennui amplified by the self-conscious art(y)ficiality of the B&W photography and my inability to care about any of the characters, except possibly the ancient hotelier. I don't watch Netflix much now, and am considering cancelling since in June the basic ad-free subscription will be hiked from £7.99 pcm to £10.99 - an eye-watering 37.5% increase !

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