Bargains

[amateur51]

There are two - it ought to be Furtwängler or Furtwaengler.

.... what about 'von Karajan'

[PJPJ]

or DF-D for that matter.....

Callas was the only one, to my knowledge, to have had with Onassis?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

There are two - it ought to be Furtwängler or Furtwaengler.

So it should! - I've been sticking an Umlautt over the "u", too: for years!

[Dave2002]

Amazon.de has some Apex CDs at 4.97 Euros - http://www.amazon.de/gp/feature.html...UTF8&plgroup=1 You'll need to check whether the postage makes a significant difference, and maybe do a bulk buy to keep the costs/CD down. These do seem to be cheaper here than in .fr or .co.uk

[Dave2002]

The Bruno Walter 7 CD Mahler set arrived, as did also the Bernstein large box set. For those who don't know this (Walter's set) has two versions of Symphony 1 - one with the Columbia SO, the other with the NYPO. Performances in the box are divided between these two orchestras. I'd say that generally the recordings of the NYPO are less good - and mono in some cases - Symphonies 4 and 5 - which date from 1945 and 1947. Still a worthwhile set - I will enjoy listening to it over the next few weeks and longer.

The SQ is still mostly acceptable, even in relatively vintage mono - and better than some other slightly older recordings which sometimes are on sale at very low prices. The versions are not quite what I was expecting - but it doesn't matter. I didn't realise that the Das Lied von der Erde existed in versions by the NYPO and the CSO with the same soloists - http://www.amazon.com/Mahler-Das-Lie.../dp/B00000DS6N - the one I have on LP. The one in the box is the NYPO version.

[Petrushka]

The Bruno Walter 7 CD Mahler set arrived, as did also the Bernstein large box set. For those who don't know this (Walter's set) has two versions of Symphony 1 - one with the Columbia SO, the other with the NYPO. Performances in the box are divided between these two orchestras. I'd say that generally the recordings of the NYPO are less good - and mono in some cases - Symphonies 4 and 5 - which date from 1945 and 1947. Still a worthwhile set - I will enjoy listening to it over the next few weeks and longer.

The SQ is still mostly acceptable, even in relatively vintage mono - and better than some other slightly older recordings which sometimes are on sale at very low prices. The versions are not quite what I was expecting - but it doesn't matter. I didn't realise that the Das Lied von der Erde existed in versions by the NYPO and the CSO with the same soloists - http://www.amazon.com/Mahler-Das-Lie.../dp/B00000DS6N - the one I have on LP. The one in the box is the NYPO version.

Dave, I'm puzzled regarding a recording of Das Lied from the CSO and the NYPO as I believe these to be one and the same. Certainly, some of the Sony/CBS booklet notes produced with some issues over the years have been riddled with errors and typos but I feel confident in saying that the only Das Lied that Walter recorded for CBS was with the NYPO on April 18-25 1960.

Despite its age the Feb 10 1947 Mahler 5 is utterly superb with, for my money, the best Adagietto on disc, set down long before Death in Venice ruined it. The double LP set with the 4th was ine of the very first Mahler discs I bought (1973).

Incidentally, a question for those who know: I always understood that the Columbia Symphony Orchestra was the Los Angeles Philharmonic in disguise. Is that correct? Or was it an ad-hoc ensemble?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Despite its age the Feb 10 1947 Mahler 5 is utterly superb with, for my money, the best Adagietto on disc

The double LP set with the 4th was ine of the very first Mahler discs I bought (1973).

Snap! (1976)

Incidentally, a question for those who know: I always understood that the Columbia Symphony Orchestra was the Los Angeles Philharmonic in disguise. Is that correct? Or was it an ad-hoc ensemble?

I'd always thought it was the equivalent of the NBCSO: an ad-hoc "sessions" ensemble using whatever available orchestral players appropriate to the work being recorded. BUT, according to WIKI:

The term Columbia Symphony Orchestra was also used when, for contractual reasons, another orchestra could not appear under its own name. Many Los Angeles Philharmonic musicians also played with the Columbia Symphony, and some reports mention that the entire Philharmonic frequently played as the Columbia Symphony.

[Petrushka]

I'd always thought it was the equivalent of the NBCSO: an ad-hoc "sessions" ensemble using whatever available orchestral players appropriate to the work being recorded. BUT, according to WIKI:

The term Columbia Symphony Orchestra was also used when, for contractual reasons, another orchestra could not appear under its own name. Many Los Angeles Philharmonic musicians also played with the Columbia Symphony, and some reports mention that the entire Philharmonic frequently played as the Columbia Symphony.

Thanks for that, FHG. I remember reading somewhere (Gramophone?) many years ago that it was the LAPO and continued to think so until recently when a few doubts set in for some reason. Those Bruno Walter discs made with the CSO are among the great glories of the gramophone and they get frequently played here.

[Stunsworth]

Just finished listening to this. Mendelssohn choral music. Lossless download from Hyperion for £4.50...

http://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/dc.asp?dc=D_CDH55268&vw=dc

[Ferretfancy]

The Hollywood studios employed many fine musicians on the payroll in their house orchestras, and many of them played in the Columbia SO, not just for Bruno Walter, but also for Stravinsky, Stokowski and others. I suspect that the Hollywood Bowl Symphony Orchestra was drawn from the same sources, since it only performed for a few weeks each year. Some of their old Capitol stereos are still well worth hearing, especially those with Leonard Pennario and Felix Slatkin, not to mention Carmen Dragon!

[Dave2002]

Dave, I'm puzzled regarding a recording of Das Lied from the CSO and the NYPO as I believe these to be one and the same. Certainly, some of the Sony/CBS booklet notes produced with some issues over the years have been riddled with errors and typos but I feel confident in saying that the only Das Lied that Walter recorded for CBS was with the NYPO on April 18-25 1960.

Now I'm puzzled too. According to the CD cover, the recording was made on April 18, 1960, so it was in the period you mentioned. It sounds very similar to the LP I have (though I've not played it recently), which I think claims to be the Columbia SO, like the CD I pointed out earlier. I suppose it's possible that there were some different takes included, and that for contractual or other reasons the versions were treated differently. Perhaps also the relationship between the recording company and the orchestra(s) has changed, so that the later reissues are now accepted as being by the NYPO.

Also in the box there are, as I've mentioned, two versions of symphony 1. One was made in 1954 (Carnegie Hall, NY City, NYPO), the other in 1961 (American Legion Hall, Hollywood, CSO). I always thought the CSO was a kind of house band, composed of musicians who were contracted to Columbia for recordings, though I did think they were taken mostly from the same area, with possibly some continuity across recordings. The recording location for the 1961 version, if correct, does suggest that there could have been, at least on occasion, an orchestra composed of west coast musicians, who perhaps could have been regular members of the Los Angeles PO. This was certainly a possibility I'd never thought of before. The track times and the playing suggest a slightly more "laid back" approach in the 1961 recording, but whether that's due to the musicians or to Walter being older is not easy to say. There may be slightly greater precision in the playing of the 1954 version, though there's not a great deal of difference between them, with very slight individual technical and interpretative variations from the musicians. It's also perhaps possible that the NYPO went on tour in 1961, hence the change of location to the west coast, or the CSO really could have been a completely ad hoc ensemble, though clearly a rather good one.

[Dave2002]

Approval needed

I've just had an email about an order for Dvorak CDs conducted by Neumann on a Supraphon set. Seems if I don't approve the delay (amazon.com), they'll cancel the order. I have approved it.

In the meantime, I seem to have stopped getting the reminders from Sainsburys about the non delivery of the Messiaen set!

[Curalach]

I've had the same email about the Neumann set. I'm happy to wait at that price!

[Bryn]

I've had the same email about the Neumann set. I'm happy to wait at that price!

ditto.

[Bryn]

ditto.

I was today advised by email that the Neumann Dvorak set was on its way.