Mahler

[David-G]

I have never listened to Mahler much. I have always had a feeling that I was perhaps not too keen on his music, but that if I really listened I might learn to appreciate it. This view has been somewhat shaken of late.

The first shaft of doubt was Mahler’s 5th at the Usher Hall last Festival, the first time I had heard a Mahler symphony played live in years. By half-way through I decided that I did not like this music – in fact, I positively disliked it. I sat through to the end, but it was not an enjoyable experience.

Then tonight was one of the highlights of the OAE 30th anniversary season, Mahler’s 2nd with Jurowski at the Festival Hall. The orchestra was vast, the chorus was vast, it was a Great Occasion. The orchestra played on instruments of the period, of course, and we heard afterwards in a discussion how this and an authentic Mahler style contributed to the performance. Everyone I talked to afterwards was full of the wonders of the performance. And yet, it left me completely cold. The music was perfectly listenable to, I appreciated all sorts of marvellous playing and singing, Sarah Connolly was marvellous, and yet the whole thing said nothing to me.

Everyone seems to love Mahler. Am I the only person who doesn’t?

[richardfinegold]

Yes

[David-G]

Oh dear Richard, that leaves me feeling most uncomfortable (!) I suppose I must have a twisted brain similar to those who don't love Mozart. An uncomfortable thought...

[richardfinegold]

Sorry,couldn't resist. It took me a few years of trying to appreciate Mahler. His easiest works to assimilate are his First and Fourth Symphonies. And Mahler and Bruckner both have always struck me as Composers that are best assimilated via recordings, perhaps a movement at a time, before trying them in Concert. I think that is why they both became prominent with the rise of lp.
Try those two works and let them slowly enter your consciousness. If the bug bites, I would then try the 9th.

[David-G]

To be more precise, I suppose it is Mahler symphonies that I seem to react adversely to. I rather enjoy his Lieder in recitals. The third movement of the 2nd is described as being an arrangement of the song "St Anthony of Padua's sermon to the fishes". I have always rather enjoyed that song, and how the fish listen attentively but then carry on being fish and ignore the message. But without the words there seemed to be nothing left of it.

I think I would rather enjoy Bruckner, though I regret to say that I have never heard any of his symphonies in concert. The OAE are playing his 6th next week, under Rattle. That should be a fine occasion - but most unfortunately it is scheduled to coincide with the first night of Passover. So I cannot be there.

[richardfinegold]

Well, it is probably pointless to try and tell some one why the ought to appreciate something if it just doesn't click for them.
Do try 1 and 4 and try to listen with an open mind. The Funeral March in the First is for me, the single most memorable thing he wrote.

[David-G]

Thanks for the encouragement!

[cloughie]

Thanks for the encouragement!

Maybe you're not ready for Mahler yet.
Try the nice tunes - Blumine, Adagietto from no5, third movement of no4 and finale of No3.
If that doesn't work try again in 2020!

[Tevot]

To be more precise, I suppose it is Mahler symphonies that I seem to react adversely to. I rather enjoy his Lieder in recitals. The third movement of the 2nd is described as being an arrangement of the song "St Anthony of Padua's sermon to the fishes". I have always rather enjoyed that song, and how the fish listen attentively but then carry on being fish and ignore the message. But without the words there seemed to be nothing left of it.

I think I would rather enjoy Bruckner, though I regret to say that I have never heard any of his symphonies in concert. The OAE are playing his 6th next week, under Rattle. That should be a fine occasion - but most unfortunately it is scheduled to coincide with the first night of Passover. So I cannot be there.

Hello there David-G,

Regarding the 6th Symphony I'd certainly recommend listening to the Andante Moderato which is beautiful and not too breast beating / bombastic / discordant which are epithets that Mahler-sceptics tend to use when critiquing / criticising his other music

This below also might be worth a spin. I love, incidentally, one of the satisfied customers' reviews "no time for those long symphonies? here are the restful, melodic bits all together"

Happy Listening and Best Wishes,

Tevot

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mahler-Adagios-Klaus-Tennstedt/dp/B000026L12

[kea]

I listened through the ten symphonies at some point last year. I had always sort of disliked Mahler and found his music pretty boring, but listening along with the scores (and of course being in the right mood to assimilate hypercharged romanticism) was helpful and kept me awake. (A certain amount of mindfulness was necessary, noticing when my mind was wandering and bringing it back into focus. It wandered often. My mind is ein fahrendes Gesellen)

Anyway under those conditions I found myself enjoying primarily the last movement of #3, parts of #4 (especially the adagio), the scherzo of #5, all of #8, the last three movements of #9 and the #10 adagio. #8 was the standout, being essentially an unstaged opera in terms of pacing and ideas, and I've heard it described as Mahler's most accessible work, inasmuch as a 90 minute piece with only one short break can be considered accessible. #2 did little for me as well except for one absolutely chilling moment (the entry of the choir). #5 doesn't work for me as a totality—I'd almost prefer for the first two movements to be replaced with the first movement of the 9th, but maybe that's just a mania for tonal symmetry.... also the Adagietto never convinces as a separate movement rather than an introduction to the finale, no matter how slowly it's played. #6 is the one that sticks in my head the most, though I don't especially like it—it just doesn't go away.

This sort of concentrated listening certainly reduced my boredom while listening to the music, anyway, and I could pick out the things I liked (individual moments and themes as well as movements/sections). I still find a little goes a long way, and don't hesitate to listen to just one or two movements when I want some Mahler but don't have 80 minutes of time/energy. Essentially my appreciation of Mahler comes almost entirely from recordings, so I can stop whenever I feel the need to—a live performance would not necessarily be as enjoyable. No idea if that helps.

[agingjb]

Das Lied von der Erde? The song cycle that is, perhaps, a symphony.

[Tevot]

Das Lied von der Erde? The song cycle that is, perhaps, a symphony.

I must admit that as much as I love DLVDE as I do now, I did find it very hard going on first hearing...

As Richard Finegold mentions up-thread perhaps the 4th is his lightest symphony (I don't mean this in any disparaging way - far from it) with a beautiful vocal finale with hidden depths.

Best Wishes,

Tevot

[Sir Velo]

Anyway under those conditions I found myself enjoying primarily the last movement of #3, parts of #4 (especially the adagio), the scherzo of #5, all of #8, the last three movements of #9 and the #10 adagio. #8 was the standout, being essentially an unstaged opera in terms of pacing and ideas, and I've heard it described as Mahler's most accessible work, inasmuch as a 90 minute piece with only one short break can be considered accessible. #2 did little for me as well except for one absolutely chilling moment (the entry of the choir). #5 doesn't work for me as a totality—I'd almost prefer for the first two movements to be replaced with the first movement of the 9th, but maybe that's just a mania for tonal symmetry.... also the Adagietto never convinces as a separate movement rather than an introduction to the finale, no matter how slowly it's played. #6 is the one that sticks in my head the most, though I don't especially like it—it just doesn't go away.

A most interesting post and one which confirms me that we all react differently to every piece of music. #8 leaves me cold despite several attempts. #4 I find maudlin and saccharine in equal measure. #1 is periodically exciting but has too many longueurs. #2 used to be my favourite, particularly the first, third and last movements, but now I react adversely to its sense of the apocalyptic - like reading the Old Testament too many times.

That leaves me really with the middle symphonies 5,6,7 and 9. Nine which is the closest in feel to the second Viennese school and as such feels less emotionally excessive, although the final movement's lachrymosal tendencies prevent me from listening to this symphony more than on rare occasions.

[cloughie]

I must admit that as much as I love DLVDE as I do now, I did find it very hard going on first hearing...

As Richard Finegold mentions up-thread perhaps the 4th is his lightest symphony (I don't mean this in any disparaging way - far from it) with a beautiful vocal finale with hidden depths.

Best Wishes,

Tevot

I think that I got to know 1 and 4 best as back in the early to mid sixties there weren't the concert performances there are now and bargain recordings of those two were available on single LPs. Nowadays complete cycles are available for a few quid.

[Suffolkcoastal]

I have never listened to Mahler much. I have always had a feeling that I was perhaps not too keen on his music, but that if I really listened I might learn to appreciate it. This view has been somewhat shaken of late.

The first shaft of doubt was Mahler’s 5th at the Usher Hall last Festival, the first time I had heard a Mahler symphony played live in years. By half-way through I decided that I did not like this music – in fact, I positively disliked it. I sat through to the end, but it was not an enjoyable experience.

Then tonight was one of the highlights of the OAE 30th anniversary season, Mahler’s 2nd with Jurowski at the Festival Hall. The orchestra was vast, the chorus was vast, it was a Great Occasion. The orchestra played on instruments of the period, of course, and we heard afterwards in a discussion how this and an authentic Mahler style contributed to the performance. Everyone I talked to afterwards was full of the wonders of the performance. And yet, it left me completely cold. The music was perfectly listenable to, I appreciated all sorts of marvellous playing and singing, Sarah Connolly was marvellous, and yet the whole thing said nothing to me.

Everyone seems to love Mahler. Am I the only person who doesn’t?

No you are not David. My low opinion of some of Mahler's small output is well known on these Boards. I don't mind some of the songs and can 'get on with' the 6th and 9th symphonies, but other works especially the 2nd, 3rd, 7th & 8th symphonies just bore me rigid. I find these four symphonies in particular, long winded, tedious, stiflingly claustrophobic and tending to take so many detours I get dizzy. With symphonies 1, 4 & 5 and DLVDE, some of the individual movements are ok and interesting but other movements leave me rather cold and bored.

My reaction to Bruckner is surprisingly very different and I rarely find his music tedious at all, the only work that I don't take to of his is the 3rd Symphony (in any version).