Applause....I know, I know..........

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

It's quite simple when it's an orchestral/recital or instrumental concert you keep quiet and clap when the work has concluded. For opera the conductor might leave a gap for applause after a well sung aria and in addition you clap when the curtain closes such as at the end of an act and at the conclusion. What could be more simple than that!




Edit (to avoid bumping up the number of posts - only 20 to go). That does seem to be the ideal compromise.

EA

Is that "simple", Stanf? (and it's certainly not a "compromise", Alpie!) Either one only claps at the end of a work, or one may clap at salient points within it - there is no simple logic that says it is acceptable to applaud after an Italian aria in the middle of an Act of an Opera, but unacceptable to do so after a Movement of a Symphony.



Edit (still to avoid the ever closer 500!): I would prefer no clapping at the end of arias, so my reluctant acceptance of it is a compromise.

[ahinton]

Dogs and bones?

The former make noises. The latter don't (at least not on their own).

[ahinton]

Is that "simple", Stanf? (and it's certainly not a "compromise", Alpie!) Either one only claps at the end of a work, or one may clap at salient points within it - there is no simple logic that says it is acceptable to applaud after an Italian aria in the middle of an Act of an Opera, but unacceptable to do so after a Movement of a Symphony.

I wonder if Wagner ever gave some thoughts to this issue and decided as a consequence to write music-dramas with continuous music rather than set-piece stage works?(!).

As to the symphony argument, yes, in general terms, although it depends on the symphony; whilst Sorabji is admittedly an exceptional case here, he wrote ten keyboard works entitled symphony, all but one of which are cast in two or more movements and require some intervals between movements in performance, so the rule of thumb there is only applaud before each interval and at the end. That said, when Kevin Bowyer gave the première of the composer's Organ Symphony No. 2, it was arguably something of a wonder that anyone present even had the energy left to applaud the middle one of its three movements, a theme and variations that played contionuously for 4½ hours (although the organist assures me that it could be tightened up to at least half an hour less than this, given time) - that said, no one believed that so much time had elapsed and it was very much like Beefy's observation about the composer's Piano Symphony No. 6 whose duration of not much less than 5 hours plus intervals felt like far less than that.

[Serial_Apologist]

The former make noises. The latter don't (at least not on their own).

I think verismissimo's contribution was in sliming rang, ahinton, though I'm still wondering about its relevance.

[P. G. Tipps]

Well, at least that means it fits perfectly into the thread ... ?

[maestro267]

At least at home on the radio, I can turn the volume down between movements to maintain the necessary silence.

14 to go...

[Bryn]

I was so grateful for the applause after the first and second movements of the Beethoven 7th tonight. I had been stifling a cough through much of each, and the applause gave me the opportunity to open up my little rucksack, take out my bottle of fruit juice and take a throat clearing gulp or two.

[ahinton]

I was so grateful for the applause after the first and second movements of the Beethoven 7th tonight. I had been stifling a cough through much of each, and the applause gave me the opportunity to open up my little rucksack, take out my bottle of fruit juice and take a throat clearing gulp or two.

But wouldn't the mere fact of inter-movement pauses alone have permitted you to do that? Anyway, I hope that your cough is better now (and, if not, then I recommend some liquid that is more amber coloured than orange coloured)...

[Bryn]

But wouldn't the mere fact of inter-movement pauses alone have permitted you to do that? Anyway, I hope that your cough is better now (and, if not, then I recommend some liquid that is more amber coloured than orange coloured)...

I have a feeling the appluase helped to extend the inter-movement pause. Thankfully Oramo pushed on straight from the third to the fourth movement without even a hint of a pause. I know it's not marked attacca, but feel it works better as if it were.

[Zucchini]

...and the applause gave me the opportunity to open up my little rucksack, take out my bottle of fruit juice and take a throat clearing gulp or two.

I find that menthol or disinfectant juice doubles your personal space as people move away...

[bluestateprommer]

"How can people be so insensitive?"

It's not just selfishness, it's also insensitivity both to the music and to their fellow audience members.

According to Jonathan McAloon in the Telegraph here, insensitivity can cut both ways:

"Recently while reviewing a Prom, I took a friend who had never seen a piece of classical music performed live. We watched a young orchestra play Beethoven – they were standing up and had no scores. While the action on the Albert Hall stage was unfettered and the effect this had on the music liberating to hear, a man glared at my friend for rustling his programme. I told my friend to be as quiet and respectful as possible: it was a bit loud, after all.

A week later I was in the same seat, and no matter how carefully I turned my pages, the same man glared at me. I didn’t see him glare at anyone else reading their programme. I could only presume he singled me out because of my age....

When I reviewed [Evelyn Glennie] last week, listeners were handed earplugs in case the music was too loud. Not long into the first piece a woman turned to me from the row in front, waved her hand and shushed me; I was taking notes with a pen and paper. “I have to write,” I told her. “It’s my job.” “No, it isn’t,” she hissed."

(Remember, I'm just the messenger for posting this link.) Granted, I fall definitely on the side of no applause between movements, unless the emotion of the music makes it momentarily appropriate. The brief burst of applause after "Jupiter" in the BBC SO Planets this season was quite understandable, as everyone was well behaved otherwise (except the unfortunate kid at the end of "Neptune"). But between all the Beethoven 6 and Walton 2 movements, just as a selection so far (I'm way behind in iPlayer listening now): no, not appropriate.

[mercia]

strange how audience throat problems miraculously clear up for the VPO and a reverential atmosphere descends on Kensington Gore

[bluestateprommer]

strange how audience throat problems miraculously clear up for the VPO and a reverential atmosphere descends on Kensington Gore

But not enough to stop applause between movements in the Brahms. Generous applause after the Symphony No. 3, though, and well earned.

[MrGongGong]

When I reviewed [Evelyn Glennie] last week, listeners were handed earplugs in case the music was too loud. Not long into the first piece a woman turned to me from the row in front, waved her hand and shushed me; I was taking notes with a pen and paper. “I have to write,” I told her. “It’s my job.” “No, it isn’t,” she hissed."

So this chap is seriously suggesting that the only way he is able to review a concert is to scribble all the way through while the music is playing?

I suggest a visit to a neurologist as he obviously has problems with memory

[pastoralguy]

Actually, my pet hate are 'official photographers' who seem to be employed to take pictures to commemorate a big event. (Every time I see a concert photo of musicians in action I always imagine a photographer sitting clicking away and annoying their neighbours!)

There are two occasions I remember, one being in the upper circle of the Usher Hall during a Festival concert where a young woman walked in and started clicking away during the performance of an American Orchestra. Naturally, she chose the very quietest parts of the music to apply her trade, annoying quite a few audience members in the process. People complained at the interval but the damage was done by that time. Obviously, she'd been told to avoid the Grand Circle since we couldn't have the wealthier music lovers bothered!

The other occasion was at the Kennedy Centre in Washington when I was on holiday with a good friend. By coincidence, our visit coincided with the National Symphony Orchestra's Gala evening. Itzhak Perlman was conducting a young Alisia Weilerstein in the Tchaikovsky Rococo Variations, (which was fantastic!), followed by Perlman and Zukerman playing Mozart's Sinfonia Concertante! What more could I ask for?

However, inevitably, there was a young female photographer clicking away noisily during the Tchaikovsky. What was odd was that I was the only audience member who seemed to be annoyed. So annoyed that I complained to the usher during the interval who moved me to another seat in the most expensive part of the hall. I ended up sitting next to a charming young lady who accepted my invitation to go for a drink afterwards at the Watergate Centre and who, a year later, accepted my proposal of marriage to be Mrs. PG!

( I should mention that my friend, who isn't interested in music in the slightest, had witnessed a crime and spent his evening being interviewed by the FBI! He ended up being allowed to visit the White House but that's another story...!)

I should also mention that the Gala concert raised $8,000,000 for the Orchestra's fund! So, a pretty good evening all round.